GRASIM

[Regulatory cover note] Ref No. GIL/CFD/SEC/24/055/SE 26th May 2023 BSE Limited National Stock Exchange of India Limited Dalal Street, Exchange Plaza, 5th Floor, Plot No. C/1, Phiroze Jeejeebhoy Towers, Fort G Block, Bandra - Kurla Complex, Mumbai - 400 001 Bandra (East), Mumbai - 400 051 Scrip Code: 500300 Symbol: GRASIM Dear Sir/Madam, Sub: Audio / Video Recording – Earnings Call This is with reference to our letter dated 18th May 2023 in respect of intimation of schedule of Analysts / Institutional Investor Meeting and pursuant to Regulation 30(6) of the SEBI (Listing Obligations and Disclosure Requirements) Regulations, 2015, the audio / video recording made today i.e. 26th May 2023, for Annual Audited Standalone and Consolidated Financial Results of the Company for the financial year ended 31st March 2023 is available at https://www.grasim.com/Upload/PDF/earnings-call-audio-Q4FY22-23.mp3 The above is for your information and records. Thanking you, Yours sincerely, For Grasim Industries Limited Sailesh Kumar Daga Company Secretary FCS - 4164 Cc: Luxembourg Stock Exchange Citibank N.A. Citibank N.A. Market & Surveillance Dept., P.O. Depositary Receipt Custodial Services Box 165, L-2011 Luxembourg, Services FIFC, 11th Floor, C-54 & 55, Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, 388 Greenwich Street, G Block Bandra Kurla Europe 6th Floor, New York, Complex, Bandra (East), NY 10013 Mumbai – 400098 Grasim Industries Limited Aditya Birla Centre, ‘A’ Wing, 2nd Floor, S.K. Ahire Marg, Worli, Mumbai 400 030, India T: +91 22 6652 5000 / 2499 5000 | F: +91 22 6652 5114 / 2499 5114 E: grasim.secretarial@adityabirla.com | W: www.grasim.com | CIN: L17124MP1947PLC000410 Regd. Office : Birlagram, Nagda – 456 331 (M.P.) [Investor-call recording transcript] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Grassland Industries Q4 and FY23 year-ended conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then 0 on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ankit Panchmatiya, Head Investor Relations. Thank you and over to you, sir. Yes, thank you, Tanvi. Thank you all and good afternoon to everyone. An full financial year ended 31st March 2023. To look at the financial statements and quarterly presentation upload. As you are aware, we don't provide specific earnings guidance. Anything said on this call which reflects or which could be constructed as a forward-looking statement must be reviewed in conjunction with the risks that the company faces. In the last slide, for reference purposes, the recording and key updates on our financial results, business and also joining the call from key businesses. We have Mr. Hemanshu Kapanya, Business Head, Payage Division. Mr. Jayan Doble, Business Head, CEO of Payage for his opening numbers. Thank you, Ankit and good afternoon everyone. We welcome you to discuss our annual performance as well as quarter four results on our annual numbers and then we will cover three aspects for the quarterly performance. As you are aware, the macro global environment of our businesses has been very volatile in the year gone by due to various factors such as energy prices and inflation rates shooting up globally, demand slowdown across supply chain disruption. The results for financial year 23 are to be seen in this background. Despite the challenging macro environment, FY23 is a momentous year for grassland. We have achieved various milestones and we hope to continue this momentum in FY24. We have constantly demonstrated growth on a YOY basis and achieved highest ever consolidated revenue of over rupees one lakh crore in this year. The CAGR in consolidated revenue and EBITDA over FY20 to FY23 stood at 16% annually. The consolidated level, ULTRA-TECH, ADITIBILA capital and ADITIBILA renewables have added to this. A key point to highlight is the reported path vis-a-vis the comparable path of the previous period. The standalone as well as consolidated path for last financial year that is FY22 needs to be adjusted for the exceptional items, tax related writebacks and profit from discontinued operations accounted in the last year. Working of these adjustments have been shared in our presentation. Also, costs in the current year are elevated due to the initial costs of our high growth new businesses which impact the overall profitability. On standalone basis as well we have achieved highest ever revenue for FY23 of rupees 26,840 crore. Standalone EBITDA for the year stood at rupees more than 4,200 crore. Over the same period of FY20 to FY23 the standalone revenue recorded a growth rate of 19% CAGR and 18% PAD. Furthermore, over the past decade we have multiplied revenue by 5.6 times and EBITDA multiplied by 4.2 times. The growth under dynamic macroeconomic conditions clearly demonstrate driving forces of the unified approach of five pillars of our strategy, namely leadership across businesses, constant product and process innovation, increase our sustainability quotient, capital allocation to build high growth businesses and constantly work for and maintain cost leadership. The highest ever revenue at standalone level is largely driven by strong growth in two large segments which is viscose and chemicals. Viscose business achieved highest ever sales volumes during the year on the back of strong domestic demand. Chemicals also posted its best over the year on the back of stable demand and historically high realizations. Textile business has achieved its highest ever revenue again largely driven by linen business. Linen club which is India's premium linen brand has been increasing its presence across India with 210 exclusive brand outlets versus 186 in FY21 and 168 in FY22. The presence across MBOs also increased now to over 8000 touch points. The premium fabric brands under Soctas and Giza house are other scalable opportunities on the retail side. Furthermore on the brand side we would like to highlight that there are multiple brands which we have created across various categories of viscose, chemicals and will be now doing so for paints. In viscose we were able to create the full demand positioning Liva as a premium sustainable. Liva is also associated through co-branding with some of the finest brands. There are also well established brands created by our key subsidiaries. Responsible corporate has been key motive where grasping continues to work and amplify its efforts through its sustainability goals and agenda. Given the complex and intensive manufacturing processes we highlight grasping has been able to make a sizable impact in FY23. Contribution from renewable energy spent in FY22. On the innovation side we continue to provide market with differentiated sustainable solutions to drive its goals towards conscious fashion. For instance there has been continuous probably textile waste. Commercial production of Liva Revivo viscose from 30% textile waste was achieved on one of the large USF lines. Likewise commercial production of Lausanne fiber was achieved with up to 31% of raw material being textile waste. Now coming to performance of quarter 4th of the year. Consolidated revenue stood at its highest level of 33,462 crore rupees recording a growth of 16%. Revenue from significant subsidiaries, Ultratech and Ardita Birla Capital grew by 20% and 23% respectively. We believe that our key subsidiaries are direct beneficiaries of India's expanding infrastructure, growing financialization and growing demand for renewable energy. Consolidated EBITDA stood at rupees 4,873 crore rupees recording a growth of 5% YOY largely due to performance from Ultratech and Ardita. Standalone businesses' revenue was up by 7% at 6,646 crore compared to 6196 crore in Q3 of this year. Standalone EBITDA de-grew 6% QOQ to 542 crore compared to 580 crore in previous quarter. At segmental level, Viscose has sequentially recovered at a faster pace and we have exited the quarter at the month high. The effective Q4 EBITDA was impacted by exceptionally subdued conditions of Q3 which continued in the initial period of current quarter. However, there remains a continuous improvement month over month in the quarter gone by. The utilization levels are near to highest levels. Demand recovery has also resulted in China Inventory reaching below their 3-year saverage of 23 days which reflects well-balanced demand supply situation currently. Viscose's revenue during the current quarter grew by 18% QOQ to 3,760 crore while combined EBITDA for the VSF and VF5 showcase sharp to VSF now reverting back to the profitability. Compared to global caustic market remains oversupplied due to higher operating rates and lower demand. On similar lines, Indian cloralkali market oversupplied due to increment. The CFRC-SEA prices of caustic soda corrected by 25% QOQ and 28% YOY during Q4 and these are the lowest prices since September 2021. While the impact of the same could come with a delay, the current quarter revenue de-grew by 4% YOY to Rs.2,397 crore compared to Rs.2,487 crore. The mix has further changed in favor of the chlorine derivatives. To further enhance our focus on chlorine derivatives, we have in the next three years 2% reduction from specialty chemicals, demand and softening in raw material prices. Revenue performance from textile remains stable at Rs.520 crore for this quarter, recording the growth of 8% YOY, largely driven by strong underlying demand from wool and linen businesses. However, the profitability for the current quarter was impacted due to exceptional rise in the flax prices which is the raw material for our linen business. The B2B e-commerce opportunity is big and scalable. We aim to be a meaningful player in due course of time in the segment of marketplace for building materials. We are on track to launch full-scale operations in Q2F524, beginning from cities in the state of Maharashtra and NP and plan to cover major part of the country in due course. The excitement is at peaks with regards to launch our paint business which is now just three quarters away. The segment is big whereby it can accommodate multiple players where we aim to be a second-largest player in Indian organized decorative paint market. The capex paint is also progressing on expected lines and would be at peak in the current and next year. Simultaneously, activities for business plan implementation are also progressing. Coming to the balance sheet, the capex for FY23 remains in the high-growth businesses. The existing businesses continue to remain free. The capex plan for the current financial year, that is FY24, once the same is finalized and approved by the board. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Naveen Sahadev from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Hello. Yes, Naveen. Yes. Yes, good evening, sir. Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my first question was on the VSCO segment wherein slide 17 of your presentation says that the price movement for grade BSF is up 4 percent quarter on quarter and even the March exit is nearly 2 percent better as compared to the average for Q4. But when I do the same arithmetic for the reported revenues and the volumes, sequentially I see a drop of almost 5 percent. If you could just help us understand the reconciliation as to are we missing anything at this particular point here. Thank you. Naveen, it is true in all the markets. So many things happening in Indian market or in export market because of various other macro factors. This did not reflect in the same way. Actually, you are right in your analysis that there is a slight reduction in the price realization in the quarter course. So obviously my question then would be in the current quarter also do we continue to see that pinch, that lag versus global prices or it can then has the tendency to reverse back or come back to mean that much faster. In China also prices have corrected to some extent and in India also prices have moved to some extent convergence. So these are dynamic things. I just want to ask a slightly longer like you know I mean horizon question here because I look at your EBITDA let us say Viscose EBITDA per kg from FY03 and till 23 if I look at that average is more like you know 25 or over definitely 22, 25 rupees per kg. I think currently we are more averaging like 5 or 6 if I am not wrong for the latest quarter or in that range of 5 to 7. So when can we expect the like you know these average EBITDA per kg go back to those long term average of if not 20 at least 15, 17 from the current levels please. It is going to take some time. I do not want to sound very pessimistic or optimistic. Those levels have to be very different. So that will help to the demand and also not normal times. So clearly I think the removal of anti-dumping duty is having an impact in the domestic market and then hence profitability versus the past could see challenges to get back to the longer term average. To some extent yes, but then there were lot of disturbances. Shipping rates were very high in 4 to 15. Now shipping rates have come back to normal. So many moving pieces in the whole game. So this is a very cyclical business that will continue to operate. So there are many many factors. Just to add Navin, you see these are very challenging times since the global developed markets have the negative consumer sentiments, consumer sentiments etc. And you also have to see that all the Chinese players are currently making losses in BSF business. So that situation cannot continue for long. And if you look at the numbers, even recent as Q1 of FY23, our margins were very good. I think in excess of 20 rupees per kg. So the situations are very volatile currently. It is not that we will not achieve those numbers or cycle. Thank you. Thank you so much. From the line of Nirav Ji Moria from annual research, please go ahead. Yeah, good afternoon sir and thanks for the opportunity. So just continuing with the earlier question. So if you rightly explained on the realization side for the BSF, but if you can just explain on the raw material side because we have seen the pulp prices correcting sharply from March onwards. So if you can explain us what were the average pulp cost for us in Q4 and when can the benefit of this reduced pulp prices could accrue to Grasim. That is one be on the caustic soda side also because caustic soda prices have further corrected in from March, April onwards. So how does the contract for caustic soda happens for the VSF division within Grasim and third would be the premium for the value added VSF. So what I could find is that the premium from last one or two quarters have shrink. It has further shrink in Q4. So was that one of the reason why the profits per kg had an impact in Q4? So this is on the VSF itself. The premium on VAPS first. So there was some reduction in the VAPS premium but that is not the main thing was the VAPS. Their demand was impacted by value. The premium on VAPS was little bit down but not. The caustic transfer prices are based on the market prices. So we follow previous month market and that is the transfer price for the next coming month. It is done on a consistent $100 now currently. So was it the same levels in Q4 also? So from Q4 till now the prices have not further fallen? No. See we have some long term agreements where we follow previous quarters price and those we have now made some adjustment to reflect the current prices quicker than one quarter lag. So currently Q4 I will say from now onwards prices will reflect one month lag. The second is on the chemical side. So if we see on the chemical profitability I think our ECU was down close to 4.5 rupees. And similar is the fall in our profitability if we do some reverse calculation. So just wanted to understand on the cost part. So if you can just help us explain what was the average cost of power for the caustic business in Q4 and for FY23. So and has that cost coming down because now call cost has fallen. Even if you can just help us explain our external power cost what we purchased from the grid. So because just wanted to understand from you that because the realizations have fallen how much of the cost savings we can work with going forward based on our cost of power metrics? So maybe couple of points. So the biggest impact of profitability really has to do with not really change much. You are a pan India player right? Tell them sir. I will join back in the Q4. Question is from the line of Rajeev Kumar from Jeffreys. Please go ahead. Hello. Yeah. Good morning. Good evening sir. My first question is on your paint segment. So with now 25% of the capex behind and like multi-cost like generally coming down globally. So is this 10,000 crore of capex plan which we have for paint? Is this the firm capex or is there some division which could be possible in this number? And a related question is on you have earlier like couple of calls back. You indicated your peak net debt to Avidya at 2.7 for the overall business including potential losses in early years for paint segment. With the significantly slower improvement in standalone business ongoing. Is there a revised number which we can look at for peak net debt to Avidya for ongoing capex? Good afternoon Pradeep. This is Himanshu. There is no change in guidance as we maintain the same numbers. I will hand it over to Pawel. Yes sir. This net debt to Avidya you see it will depend upon the actual capex spend and the Avidya how it performs over the quarters. So this 2.7 or whatever number we have shared is not a static number. But yes the 31st March 23 is 0.4 is net debt to Avidya which of course will move up as the capex spending goes up and we borrow for capex going forward. Ballpark but it should ideally be higher from here right from 2.7 because the profitability has in ongoing business been significantly more subdued and prolonged. So right now if you say yes today it looks like yes it will go up but we don't know after two quarters how the business is performed. So if suppose VSF and our chemical businesses are back to normal levels then it may not change significantly. On other segment questions VSF and chemical based on so both the segments have clearly seen decline in cost environment and VSF is also as you said improvement in pricing also and demand internationally. So both of these segments should have seen like sort of a bottom profitability in this quarter or like next I mean going forward I mean VSF seems like a bottom but is the chemical profitability should also reverse from here. So again see I think that will depend upon how the global prices move. See what is in our control is the cost. So what we are doing is that see we are increasingly I mean we are sourcing more and more renewable power which is cheaper power. Wherever we are possible we are enhancing our effective power plant capacity. So on the cost front we are doing various initiatives. Chlorine side we are taking initiatives where we are increasing the chlorine integration level. So all those things are there. One additional aspect is like phosphoric acid plant which was not operational in the Q4 is now operational. So possibly yes we can say that it is bottomed out but everything again depends upon the global prices as well as the impact of the same in the Indian market. In VSF case is there any update on anti-dumping duty review by government? DGTR had recommended from Indonesia and China but the finance ministry did not accept or they did not act on that. So they think it is not moving forward. Review is not moving forward. They will not do it immediately. And we also do not have any new information to sub-GTR. We can only recommend and then that will matter. Sorry to interrupt sir. Please join the queue back. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumangal Niwatiya from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead. Good evening sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, first question is on the volumes of both the divisions. In the past we operated both the units at more than 95% utilization. This year both the units are in the 80s. We are also having this expansion at the chemical division. Sir, from a volume growth and utilization point of view, any direction you would like to give for FI24? For VSF we are now operating at high 90s. Okay, got it. So second question is with respect to CAPEX. Now this year also we have spent somewhere around 2,000 or 2,000 crores in the existing VSF and chemical business. I mean what sort of, I mean pending CAPEX because I mean these ground field and de-bottlenecking is left which would be spent in FI24. And VSF, are we considering any upstream expansion, ground field or anything given we are reaching high utilization for the past expansion? The major part of VSF business, CAPEX, was completed with the completion of our delayed expansion. Now some investments are going on with the de-bottlenecking of our XL-ISL fiber capacity. That is not a big CAPEX anyway. And then there are certain costs. Sir, make the number. Did you share any number? We are still working out for numbers of all the businesses for the current financial year. So as I mentioned in the opening remarks, we will come back to you with the numbers once the overall number, CAPEX number for the company level numbers are finalized. Sir, just some clarification on the paint division. This 7500 which is approximately left. We said we will accelerate. So this pending CAPEX will be spent over what period? Sir, is it two, two and a half years? So we are on track on the project. We will consistently maintain that we will be launching our services in... So the plant, all the plant CAPEX will be done for the paint in next financial year, by next financial year, by FY25. So the major CAPEX will be done by end of FY25. The small leftover items may be carried forward in the next year. Otherwise, 24 and 25 will be the larger part will be completed. Got it sir. Thank you and all the best. The next question is from the line of Shamsundar Sriram from Franklin Templeton. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi sir. Good evening. Hope I'm audible. Thanks for the opportunity. Go ahead. Yeah. My question is on paint. Given that Asian paint is more strong in the west and the south region, from a go-to-market approach, how do we plan to take it up market region by region, just any flavor that we can share? And to that end, have you started building our network and dealer empowerment as well? Any comments on the progress would be helpful. Rakshit, let me take this answer. So we have obviously studied all competition, including the market leader. And we have a clear view of what are our key tasks, whether it is east, west, north and south. Like we are giving updates on our capex progress. Obviously, the work in terms of meeting the trade, meeting the dealers and also all going on track in line with a proposed launch. The current participant is not in the queue. We'll move to the next participant. The question is from the line of Sarfaraz Bhimani from JP Morgan. Please go ahead. Hello. Am I audible? Yeah, please go ahead. Yeah, sure. So my question was in continuation of the paint discussion that we are having. So first clarification I wanted is in terms of capex that you said. So the plant's capex will get done in FY 25, but we are launching the product in FY 24, fourth quarter of FY 24. So this means we will not have a pan India or like, you know, a big entry per se. I mean, can you please give some clarity on this side? We'll repeat what we've been saying consistently. We are in the process of building, which is a large capacity ready for. OK, so this pan India launch would happen subsequently. So any target that you have in mind for this and any particular region as you were just talking to the previous participant that you already have all these discussions going on with dealer networks, et cetera. But any particular region that you're looking for first entrance? No specific region. We are a pan India player. Our ambition remains pan India. It is whatever is realistically possible. We will move in a very systematic manner. There are no further guidance on specific. Those are my questions. Thank you so much. Thank you. We have Shamsundar Sriram reconnected from Franklin Templeton. Please go ahead with your question. Hi, sorry, I got disconnected. Just continuing on that paying question. We understand in the initial couple of years, the paying business will need some amount of cash inclusion. Now, I have two parts of the question. As for our internal estimates, when do we expect EBITDA breakeven and cash breakeven for this business? Ballpark, can the paying business be cash breakeven by F26 or 27? Is that a fair understanding? And secondly, the second part of the question, if you think of re-sensing the existing cash flows from the other businesses, how much maximum cash losses should we bake in from the paying business from an outer bound perspective over a period of two years? If you can share some perspectives on these lines, that would be very helpful. I think that's a very myopic way of looking at our overall paying business. I think you have to see the big picture. And I will take a minute to try to explain to you the larger picture. Just like Grasim is a very strong player in the textile market, they are intending to become a strong player. I'm sure you must have seen the building material market for the second largest sector. On an overall basis, it's about $300 billion. And currently, paint is about $9 billion in size. The building material industry is doubling at about 7%. The market will continue to grow. And there is a market for national players which can consistently supply material as well as make sure its presence is not only in urban but in all of our results. And we are not giving any guidance as regards that the market is ripe enough for a second player and large enough to be able to accommodate the capacity that we're building. So, essentially, you are saying he may not be... I mean, he would be breakeven, a bit of breakeven quite early on than I was saying. I mean, that is what it comes out because the market is large enough for another player. It means that we would not have much cash losses that is on my mind. And more breakeven would be much more nearer than what I would think at this point of time. Correct. Is that a fair understanding? I will repeat what we have said. So, sir, best wishes on the new initiatives. Thanks. The next question is from the line of Mudit Agarwal from Motilalos for Financial Services. Please go ahead. Hello. Good evening, sir. Am I audible? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, please go ahead. Just one question regarding the V2P e-commerce business. We have about to launch full-flash this business in 2 QF by 2024. Can you show some light, like, what is the current status and what kind of revenue and softwares we are expecting for F by 2024? Just a broad-based number, sir. So, in regards to plan, as I said in the opening remarks, we will launch the full-scale platform in Q2. Okay. But it will be in phases in the sense, in the first phase, we will cover two states, which is MP and Maharashtra. Based on the experience, we will scale it up and then it will go for a pan-India launch in a phased manner. As regards to the profitability, we actually shared, it is not going to be profitable in the year one. It is a, I mean, the gestating period for the business, but the opportunity is very large in the sense the total market for the building material is more than $100 billion. The digital share today is less than 4%. There is a large opportunity. We have the kind of network available or strategy for the market of e-commerce. Okay. Thank you, sir. Just one bookkeeping question. Can you share the BF by EBITDA number actually for the quarter? BF by EBITDA will be BF by VSF separator number. Yes, yes. The full VSF number is there. I will repeat that VSF, which was negative EBITDA in Q3, is now positive EBITDA in Q4. Okay. Thank you, sir. That's it from us. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Navin Sadev from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you for the repeat opportunity. Just two quick questions. One is on the working capital side, see a huge increase in inventories, not so much in receivables, not so much in payables. So, is it a temporary thing or is it anything specific more got to do with increase in raw material prices or what could be the reason for the almost $500 crores increase there? So, Q4, there has been some demand slowdown as we have said earlier also. So, the inventory built up is a temporary situation. We hope that this should be back to normal. Understood. So, it's largely using finished goods inventory, which is just a temporary... Yeah, a temporary situation. And second, I'm sorry, but there is so much more interest in paint, so I couldn't have it past this. Is it fair to assume that by Q4 we'll start seeing the buzz, be it advertisements, be it like, you know, to make it more sound like a large nationwide player is coming? Is it fair to say that by Q4 we'll see a buzz around that or could be before that as well? Thank you so much. So, you know, like we said that we will start rolling out from Q4 in terms of creating the buzz in Q4. So, we will have to time our activities. Sure, sure. Look forward to all of that buzz. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pratik Kumar from Jeffreys. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity. Again, a couple of follow-up questions. Firstly, on B2B e-commerce, we are looking to have a website launched by Google 24, which will serve to customers in Maharashtra and MP. Is that correct? No, the website will be... it will be a universal website. It is not limited to the MP and Maharashtra, but our services we will start in phases. So, in the Q2 of this year, we will start with MP and Maharashtra. Universal website, so as in you are both vendor and customer, I mean both sides of that platform. Yeah, yeah. We will have the customer... I mean basically the vendors will be available, whoever wants the materials will be able to get whatever the product categories we are offering. They will get all the details. The customer segments, as we have told earlier, will be the MSME contractors and the retailers. So MSME customers and retailers would largely be located in Maharashtra MP to start with and vendors from where basically the sellers would be anywhere in the country. Yes, sellers will be... I mean whoever can service them. And then we say that we have already started to launch like customer support, logistics and lending in the markets. So we have... I mean we have almost closed the suppliers in some categories. The service providers like logistics also, that is also going on. The final agreements will be reached somewhere in this quarter. Do you also consume your like capex or working capital in a way? Capex is not very large amount. It will be... Of course there is a Capex going on right now. We have partnered with six technology partners already on board. They are executing the required technological solutions for the... It is not going to be... The e-commerce business is not a Capex oriented business, Capex intensive business. We will have the inventories only for the part where these critical city sellers only. And just one question on BSS demand and exit of FI-24, FI-23. You said it has been stronger than the quarter average. So will it be possible to quantify the same? I mean your like last quarter was like a quarterly loss in VSA segment. Did it turn like positive only in March month that way? No, the demand is increased every month of the quarter. But then there is lot of seasonality involved in VSA business in terms of demand also. Little bit weaker but... Volumes are actually increased more in domestic segment as a domestic mix have increased 91%. Domestic but some in export also. Okay. Thank you sir. These are my questions. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Kajra, Informist Media. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi sir. Can you share the habitat margin, the total standalone habitat margin for the March quarter as well as the year of the quarter and the future quarter? Thank you. Margin, just a minute. So for this quarter Q4 of this year is 0.4% at the overall company level. I'm sorry. I did not catch that clearly. What is the number? 6.4. 6.4%. 6.4%. Right. Yeah. And year of the quarter? Yes. No, no, no. Not the whole year. The March quarter of 2020. Yeah, yeah. Just a minute. 23 Q4. That is the quarter born by EBITDA margin. Total EBITDA margin is 8%. And for Q4 last year was 13%. As a run off with the questions, on behalf of Grassim Industries, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.