POWERGRID

[Regulatory cover note] CIN: L40101DL1989GOI038121 18th June, 2021 To To The General Manager, (Listing) The General Manager (Listing), BSE Limited, National Stock Exchange of India Limited Phiroze Jeejeebhoy Towers, Exchange Plaza, C 1/G Block, Dalal Street, Mumbai. Bandra-Kurla Complex, Bandra (East), Mumbai. Reference: NSE-SCRIP ID: POWERGRID; BSE Scrip Code: 532898 EQ – ISIN INE752 E01010 Sub: Link of Video Recording of Webinar held on 18.06.2021 with Investors & Analysts. Dear Sir, In terms of Regulation 30 of the SEBI (Listing Obligations and Disclosure Requirements) Regulations, 2015, it is informed that a Webinar with for Investors & Analysts has been held on 18.06.2021. Link of Video Recording of Webinar held on 18.06.2021 is as under: https://apps.powergrid.in/pgdocs/2021/6/powergrid_inv_meet_18_06_2021.mp4 Thanking You. Yours faithfully, (Mrinal Shrivastava) Company Secretary & Compliance Officer केन्द्रीय कायाालय"सौदामिनी" :, प्लॉट नंबर 2, सेक्टर -29, गुरुग्राि -122001, (हररयाणा :दूरभाष )0124-2571700-719 Corporate Office: “Saudamini”, Plot No. 2, Sector-29, Gurugram-122001, (Haryana) Tel.: 0124-2571700-719 पंजीकृत कायाालय: बी -9, कुतुब इंस्टीट्यूशनल एररया, कटवाररया सराय, नई मदल्ली -110 016. दूरभाष :011-26560112, 26560121, 26564812, 26564892, CIN: L40101DL1989GOI038121 Registered Office: B-9, Qutab Institutional Area, KatwariaSarai, New Delhi-110 016. Tel: 011-26560112, 26560121, 26564812, 26564892, CIN : L40101DL1989GOI038121 Website: www.powergridindia.com [Investor-call recording transcript] I welcome you all for the fourth quarter and FY21 annual analyst and investors meet of power grid. To discuss companies' performance in FY21 and share the outlook, today we have the entire senior management team of power grid represented by Mr. K. Srikanth, CMD, Mrs. Seema Gupta, director of operations, Mr. M. Taj Mukarram, director of finance and CFO, Mr. V. K. Singh, director personnel. Without much of a delay, I would request CMD power grid to make his opening remarks subsequent to which the floor will be open for Q&A. Over to you, sir. Good morning. Thanks, Harsh. I'll start with a brief presentation about the performance. Can we have the presentation, please? Yes. Next. I will briefly talk about the major highlights of this year and then about the company and then the 21 financials outlook for the future. The major highlights are the first is the power grid in which, which has been listed on 14th of May. It has been a rolling success. We had 4.83 times of subscription against the offer size of 7735 crores. And what is gladdening is the extensive support we have received from a wide spectrum of investors. About 25% was from foreign investors, 15% from mutual funds, 11% from insurance companies, pension funds, about 8%. And even in the non-institutional segment, we had the confidence of more than 15,000 individuals and non-institutional investors in the offering. We have acquired the five TBCB projects which have been won by us. All these projects have been acquired. I think two have been acquired before 31st March and the rest have been acquired very recently. These are all for the solar generation in the Rajasthan region, the ISTS projects. In terms of our CPU role, this has been now given to the Central Transmission Utility of India, which is a 100% subsidiary of Power Grid at present, but soon it will be made a separate government-owned entity. We continue to be a GIMP transmission licensee. These are mainly regulatory functions as per the act and the regulations which will be done by the Central Transmission Utility of India. We have acquired the JP joint venture where we had 26% and JP had 74% This was for a non-cash consideration of 351 crores. These are regulated assets and this is an operating asset and has a very high availability. Recently, the government of India has handed over to us the Srinagar Lake Transmission System. We take pride in this transmission system which provides connectivity to the lake, Ladakh region. This was initially constructed by Power Grid as a consultancy assignment under the government of India grant. 5% was subscribed by the states. Now we are going to put in that 5% about 89 crores and then further strengthen and augment this with some more investment. More than the investment, it is the privilege of serving the people in the remote corners of Ladakh which is the biggest plus point for this. Today Power Grid has 168,256 kilometers. This is after the monetization of 6,900 kilometers about 438,000 MVF transformation and 90,090 megawatt of inter-regional transmission capacity. Now I will focus on the highlights of FY21. As you are aware, and the year gone has been one of very tough and the challenge was pandemic. And despite the pandemic and the difficulties we faced in all aspects, be it construction or operation, I'm very happy to share with you today that whatever has been the commitment in the last year, the company has been able to achieve. We did a capex of 11,284 crores on a consolidated basis. Our target was 10,500 crores. The capitalization was 21,467 crores on a consolidated basis. On a standalone it is 19,533 crores. 6,500 circuit kilometers of lines, nine substations, 27,300 MVF transformation capacity and 3,000 megawatt of inter-regional capacity. So I'm very happy that what we have committed in the last annual analyst meet, we have definitely surpassed. In terms of the quarter four performance, the capitalization has been about 9,000 crores and the capex 3,782 crores. Some of the major projects we have capitalized in this year, plus minus 800 KV Raigarh-Puglur system. It is a 6,000 megawatt system of which we have commissioned the first BIPOL, 3,000 megawatt. The DC line Raigarh-Puglur, 3,530 circuit kilometers and a part of the AC system. The BIPOL-2 testing is under progress. Actually the work is complete. We are waiting for the small stretch of AC lines, roughly about 17 kilometers is now pending. Once this is done, this whole project can be commissioned. So we are really having a challenge in getting the right-of-way clearance in Tamil Nadu. And also because of the pandemic, it is a bit more aggravated. People are fully committed to it and working on it and we hope that sooner it will be completed. The second leg of this system, which is the 2,000 megawatt Puglur-Trisur VSC-based HPDC system, I'm very happy to share with you is fully commissioned and capitalized. We have done the first monopole of 1,000 megawatt in the fiscal 21 and the second monopole has been commissioned in June 21. This is a unique technology, first time brought into the country by Power Grid. We have used a combination of overhead and underground cable to circumvent the right-of-way challenges in Kerala. And this technology also is going to be used in future RE integration, particularly in the lay or any such high volume RE evacuation is required. In terms of our operations, the availability of the system was 99.76%. The trippings were about 0.36. We have adopted many latest technologies such as the use of application apps, developed in-house for patrolling, drones for patrolling of transmission lines. The remote operation of our network from the National Transmission Asset Management Center or the Regional Transmission Asset Management Centers, we have about 11 all over the country. This has been a big boom and facilitated operation of our large network despite the pandemic. We have also developed the in-house tool for monitoring and condition monitoring of the transformers and reactors. And going forward, we are going to develop similar tools for other critical equipment such as circuit breakers and isolators as well. I would like to show few pictures of the, I mean showcasing the commitment of our operating and maintenance personnel because in this pandemic situation, it is been not easy with restrictions on movement of man and material to ensure the availability of system at such high levels. These are some pictures of people working at night or you crossing the river to reach to a line in the Northeast, which is had a breakdown. We also developed a lot of competence in in-house maintenance of gas insulators which gives substations in the company and the dependence on the OEMs has reduced substantially in these operation in the maintenance or breakdown maintenance of the systems. We had encountered three cyclones. Super cyclones are I think even more higher gradated cyclones Ramphan, Taute recently and Yash on the East Coast. Very happy to share that the advanced preparedness and the robust infrastructure we have built, we did not, our network had no material damage and we could lend a helping hand to the states in restoration of their systems. As I mentioned, this year has been one of performance and fighting the pandemic. Nearly 25% of our employees were affected by COVID, it's particularly in the second wave. We had seen supply chain restrictions, restrictions in the movement of men and material. Despite that, as you have seen, we had achieved very high operational performance and capitalized a large volume of assets. Now, if we look at the fighting pandemic, we took care of our employees. We had set up isolation facilities. We had control rooms and task force 24 by seven, assisting the people. Vaccination is one thing we are very much focused on. Nearly 80% of our employees and 15 and 60% of the contractual workers have received at least one dose of the vaccine. We are targeting to complete the vaccination by the end of July. We have also contributed to the society in terms of providing cold chain equipment in Ladakh, Mizoram, Punjab and Sikkim. We facilitated supply of oxygen to nearby hospitals. We provided an oxygen plant to the district hospital in Jaisalmer, and one more is on the way for Gurgaon. Coming to the financial performance, there has been a 6% growth on the income on a consolidated or standalone basis. Pat has grown by about 10%. One significant improvement has been the performance of the subsidiaries and the dividend which we have received prior to monetizing these assets. That has been a significant jump in the dividend by almost 320 crores. I will not dwell too much on this slide. The EBITDA gross margin has been about 6% growth and overall profit after tax has grown by about 10%. In terms of our debt, you can see that the leverage is slightly coming down. It is now 67.33, fractionally down from the 70, 71, 70, 30 kind of levels we had a couple of years back. On a consolidated basis, the return on net worth has been 17.21%. EPS has grown by two rupees, almost 23.01. And the capital work in progress is now at about 25,000 crores as of March. Dividend, we have declared already nine rupees as interim and three rupees is now proposed as final dividend. If you look at it, this three rupees will effectively work out to four rupees on a pre-bonus basis. So it is in fact, 13 rupees versus 10 rupees which we have given last year. The payout ratio has also gone up from 54 to 57%. And very happy to share that first time we are proposing a bonus offering in the ratio of one is to three. And this is another milestone. And I hope that the investors, particularly the retail investors will find a lot of cheer in this. Some of the numbers which you are all very eager to know, I have put them in this slide, such as this year has been 744 crores. One thing I would like to mention in the results that we have provided a rebate of about 1,079 crores, one time rebate which was shown as an exceptional income expenditure. Subcharge has gone up 744 crores. Initial periods, there was delays, but as you will see, the recovery realizations have significantly improved. Incentive for the year has been 481 crores. Interest from subsidiaries about 1,067 crores. Dividend from subsidiaries, 547 crores as I mentioned previously. Rate receivables have shrunk to 3676 crores. Significant improvement even in terms of days receivables. The short-term debt is now about 1,800 crores compared to 3,000 crores last year. Our receivable position has improved. This year, the realization has been 103.7804%. What was looking, whether we will cross this 100% number was looking very difficult in the half year or even the third quarter. But thanks to the Atmanidhar Bharat package and various other initiatives taken by the company, we could realize more than what we have built in the financial year or in the financial year. Realization was 103.78% outstanding. You have come down to nearly 38 days billing. Only Jammu and Kashmir is a very major outstanding customer and we hope that we will be able to realize this sooner. In terms of our other activities, the telecom performance, there has been a growth in the telecom, roughly about, I mean, it's not very significant. It is just 10 crores of income. But in a situation where the telecom tariffs fall, maintaining this position itself is a big challenge. And we have successfully connected lay on the SLPS network. So that is now opening up potential to provide bandwidth for lay connectivity. Going forward, we are looking to get a license for international long distance. This business was to be hiked off, this entire telecom business was to be hiked off into a separate SPV, our petition before the CERC is still pending. I think the hearing has been done and soon we expect an order and then this business will be hiked off. We are also planning to expand into data centers, taking the advantage of land available at the substations, the fiber availability and the electricity availability. So these are three ingredients which are major essentials for a data center. And that is what we are looking to expand. In terms of our consultancy, you know, it is been a downward performance, income has reduced on the back of reducing PBCB works and also the performance in our other contracts, NERSC and comprehensive has not been as it was planned. So there has been a down in this segment, but we are looking to further expand this in terms of our energy efficiency services, in terms of consultancy for smart grid and also looking for other international consultancy. Now we are in discussions with a proposal is being submitted for a work in Nigeria and other foreign countries. EV charging, we have some presence, but it is still nowhere near the scale or anything worth spending a lot of time on this. One of our supports to the sustainability initiatives is establishing rooftop solar systems to replace the traditional supply of power for our internal consumption. At about 74 locations, we have six MWP of rooftop and the five MWP is under construction. Eight MWO of energy has been generated annually. So this replaces the conventional supplies from the grid. Going forward, we have today works in hand of about 41,000 crores ongoing projects, new projects about 6,000 PBCB 18,000 crores. Another 10,300 crore are immediate upcoming opportunities in the interstate, about 9,300. Interstate, there is 1,000. Plus we are also looking at providing an offer for the UP system, which was built by a private developer but which has now gone to NCLT. We are considering that. Another project which we have been discussing with you was the transmission system for evacuation of 10 gigawatts of renewable power from lay. This is a system from Pank to Kaithal about 5,000 megawatt from Nehoma to Kashipur in East UP, another 5,000 megawatt. This will be a VSC based system with the associated AC network as well. So we have prepared the detailed project report and submitted it to the ministry. And hopefully we should be getting the mandate to execute this project. Other areas where we are going to focus, now that the CTU is not with us, we can do generation of electricity. There are parcels of land available at several substations we have identified and are looking to set up solar generation on these land parcels. Intrastate transmission, sub-transmission network, this is another focus area we are going to take up in larger states, particularly because there is a need for strengthening this segment going forward to increase the reach. Today we have 100% access, but the growing demand for power will have to be met through a more reinforced backend infrastructure that's the transmission and sub-transmission networks and that is what we will be focusing on. Keeping in view the cyber security in the sector, we are working to set up a center of excellence in this area in association with the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore. And also we have a smart grid knowledge center which also works on the smart grid technologies, promoting the smart grid technologies. And we are going to set up an incubation center there to promote smart grid technology and be in a position to leverage this for any business opportunities which come in this area. If you look at the sector as such, there is a huge pipeline in the national infrastructure pipeline, Vision 2025. The mission is to provide 24 by seven clean and affordable power. The installed capacity is to grow by another 200 gigawatts with greater share of RE. In the total, we had initially estimated about 65,500 crore of CAPEX, which we will be looking to upscale going forward as the progress of our initiatives in the various other businesses come to fruition. And we believe that there is an opportunity for growth in the company. Of course, the kind of CAPEX which we have been accustomed to, that quantum may not be there, but still it will not be a very kind of stagnation. So we would definitely look for some amount of growth going forward. Very briefly, several of the awards we have received in the last 2021, I am very happy to share the 2020 AT&T Best Award for our HRD initiatives, Bob's World's Best Employer 2020 list, we made it, and also the CIA National HR Excellence Award. So I conclude my presentation here and would be happy to receive your questions. Thank you. So thank you very much for a detailed presentation. Nikhil, can we open the floor for Q&A? Ladies and gentlemen, in case you wish to ask a question, please raise your hand. I will unmute your line and maybe you could go ahead. First question is from Mohit Kumar. Mohit, please go ahead. Hi, good morning. Am I audible? Yeah, good morning, Ali. Yeah, good morning, sir. My first question is that how will you book the profit for Invit Games for the portion you have done in this quarter? And what is the portfolio which you will transfer into Invit in the next 12 to 18 months? That's my first question. We have not booked any profit in March results. In Q1, there will be. So I would request you to wait for Q1 results. Definitely, it will be there. In the next 12 months, we are yet to finalize the pipeline. I expect about 5,000 crores of assets to be monetized in the next 12 to 18 months. Okay. My second question is, sir, what is the commissioning and capex likelihood for FY22 and FY23 given the current portfolio of assets? And if we can pick up between the standalone and TBCB, it will be helpful. Sorry, Mohit, I couldn't get your question at all. So my question is, sir, am I audible? Sir, question is, sir, what is the capex and capital expenditure and commissioning guidance for FY22 and FY23 given our current portfolio of assets? And if we can pick up this into standalone and TBCB, that would be helpful. Okay, in 21, 22, we expect to capitalize somewhere around 17,000 plus crores, around 10,000, nine to 10,000 in TBCB, six to 8,000 in, sorry, it is other way around, nine to 10,000 in RPM, and around seven to 68,000 in TBCB. And the capital expenditure? Overall. And so do we have similar number for FY23 right now? No, I would not like to venture the path. And so for capital expenditure for FY22? FY22, the capex is 7,500 crores. And so break up between cost plus and the TBCB? Significantly, it is TBCB. I think around 4,000 plus will be TBCB. Thank you, sir, and best of luck. Thank you. Thank you. So maybe we lost you for a brief moment of time. Maybe if you want to repeat the answer. No, I think Mohit has been answered, but the next question I didn't get. Sure. Next we have Puneet Gulati Gowai. Yeah, thank you so much, and congratulations on good numbers. Can you comment upon, you know, there was a recent Supreme Court ruling which talks about underground of cabling in certain areas of Rajasthan and Gujarat. Can you talk about any potential impact that may have on you and whether do you think there is a feasibility of that action as well? This is a judgment of the Supreme Court regarding, you know, protecting the Great Indian Buster, which is building and I think the species under threat. Now, the Supreme Court order talks of undergrounding low voltage conductors, and the high voltage conductor, where it is not possible to underground should be provided with bar diverters. Now, in the implementation of this, there are issues because what is low voltage, what is high voltage, and those issues are yet to be decided. Whatever power grid is building, they're all certainly high voltage. We are doing only 400 or 765 KB lines in that area. So we need to put bar diverters, which we will do. Having said that, the state utilities and the solar developers who need to get connected, I think they are having more impact. So there is a discussion around this, how to, because in decision, I think in this judgment, which was given, many of the utilities are the affected parties are not respondents. So I think there is a debate around this, how to implement this as well as how to bring before the court the implications of this, the implications on the renewable growth and so on. But as far as power grid is concerned, I do not see this directly impacting that. Sure. You don't need to take anything underground. And secondly, the current construction work also does not get hampered. See, that is what I said, the voltage limits at which we are operating, a 400 KB or 765 KB, it is not technically feasible to underground them for long distances. So there is, if at all, we have to go to one committee the Supreme Court has constituted and prove to them that it is technically not feasible. So we believe that when that is done, we will definitely be able to go ahead with the construction. And in the interim construction progress can continue? We are carrying out, yes. Okay, understood. Thank you so much. That's all from my side. So if you don't mind, can we take a question from the chat box? It actually comes from Sheena Babusa. Her question is, can management clarify the annual CAPEX and capitalization opportunity for power grid, given their current orders in hand and the NIP vision to 2025? Thank you. See, we are having the NIP plan of 65,500 units of 100 crores. We have done all of that nearly 26,000 crores already. So our plan in the NIP was of roughly of the order of 10,000 crores annually. So if we put 10,000 crores into CAPEX year on year, that is what will come out as capitalization going forward. Because this, what we are doing right now has been invested a few years back. That is getting capitalized now. That is why you see the difference, big difference between CAPEX and capitalization. But if we do CAPEX of 10,000, 12,000, 15,000 annually, that is what will come going forward as capitalization also. Sure, thank you. So then we have a question from Sumit Kishore. Sumit, go ahead, please. Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is, India currently has about 95 gigawatt of installed renewable capacity. Clearly the 2022 target of 175 gigawatt is nowhere going to be met and possibly we'll end up with a number between 120 to 130 gigawatts. So in that light, do you think that a per annum run rate, what is the annual award on TPCB that is likely for FY22, 23, 24? Could give some roadmap and also break your answer into potential opportunities not only in interstate, but interstate as well. That's my first question. When we talk of 95 gigawatts of renewable, I'm sure you are not counting the hydro, which is also renewable. Yes, I'm not counting that. So when we aggregate all this renewable, I'm very sure that 175 will be matched. But 175, sir? The government target of 175 did not include hydro. So let us not mix numbers. Okay, fair enough. It had the, still there is a lot under construction in renewables and more tenders are coming, particularly in the Gujarat, Kowda, that 30 gigawatt has been planned. Another 20 gigawatts in Rajasthan is being planned and the network plans are being developed. So yes, the pandemic has impacted. There has been a time extension given due to the pandemic. So I will not foresee or I can't predict how much of 175 will be met or not met. As far as transmission network is concerned, these are the ones which are coming right now in Gujarat, Kowda, plus Rajasthan 20 gigawatts. These are big systems which will be coming for TBCB in going forward. See, when we have planned, I believe that the opportunity for TBCB in the aggregate will be say around 15 to 20,000 force annually going forward for integration of these renewables. And the work on taking from 175 to 450 gigawatts will also have to commence sooner than later. So that is another aspect which will come. So another work which I mentioned in my presentation, which will be taken up sooner than later is the lay transmission system for a 10 gigawatt of solar integration into the network. So it's very difficult to give you a break up the way you wanted in terms of how much ISTS, how much intrastate, interstate and so on. But these are the broad areas where there are investment and that is where action is currently taking place. Sure. So just a follow-up there, when you said 150 to 200 billion rupee per annum, that is just interstate or is it including intrastate as well? I am only talking of intrastate because all the schemes I mentioned are interstate schemes. Interstates are that much more difficult to predict when the sequence, the size, the timing, these are much more complex. Fair enough. So when you say that 100 billion run rate for power grid, and if the interstate market is going to be 150 to 200, the implied market share for power grid, not talking about the works in hand, but the new wins is implied to be more than 50%. My question is also if you could collaborate that plus the fact that the recent wins that you have had in the last few months, you have practically got a dominant market share. Has it been at the cost of a lower IRR? So if I were to compare the IRR for your portfolio, for instance, the one that you shifted into the Invit versus the last five assets that you have won, how would you compare the IRR profile for these two bucket of assets? Okay. Let me answer in the reverse. The assets which we have monetized are by far the most profitable asset. Yes. The returns are way beyond even the RPM. So those were the assets when the TBCB market was still nascent, competition was not that high, everyone was learning the ways. Now the competition is much more. And let me assure you, when we have bid out, we have not significantly or in any way compromised the return expectations. We had the benefit of certain competitive equipment prices. And we believe that what we offer is a deliverable and a reasonable return proposal. As regards to the question, are we expecting a larger market share? I know we have not in our 10,000 crore kind of a capex target. We have tempered our, I mean, win percentages as per the past. We have not put a very high number there. Besides, I think for other opportunities, as I mentioned, in the interest rate, in other segments. And that is how we expect to make up this 10,000 crores of times. Sure. So what is the size of the layer project? I know it will be a multi-year project, but what is the phasing likely to be in terms of award? And is it a given that PowerGrid is the nominated authority to implement the problems? It is not a given yet. We have submitted, we have been mandated to the DPR. We have submitted the DPR. We are very hopeful that it will be given to us. The phasing, the size and all are still under discussion. So I won't be able to disclose it at this point. Sure. So just a last bookkeeping question. You have paid almost 95% of profit of the subsidiaries have been paid as a dividend to the standalone entity in FY21. Going forward, should we expect a similar number in terms of dividend payment from subsidiaries to standalone? Because in the past, it has been a lower payout. In the past, they were not material and they were just coming into operation and all. But definitely what is the point in keeping any money with the subsidiary when they don't have growth opportunity? The growth will happen through the parent. All right. Thank you. Next we have Murtusa. Murtusa, can you go ahead? Yeah, thank you. So there's been a discussion paper on market-based economic dispatch. And our sense is that transmission infrastructure will be a key to implement the same. Would be happy to hear your views on the feasibility in terms of timelines of implementation and overall implementation. And what kind of an opportunity could we think of from power grid or the transmission sector's perspective if one were to actually go ahead with this market-based economic dispatch? You know, I think here you see the transmission as the stage on which this market-based economic dispatch will be played. So I don't think we are as a transmission utility much impacted in a commercial sense by this. As far as the network growth, which may be required because of this, you know, if it is fully implemented, right now I understand it is only for NTPC, but suppose this concept clicks, it is to be implemented across the board. If there is a congestion, then there will be a network growth opportunity. So if I look at it from a transmission utility perspective, it is some days away because this is to start from 22 fiscal, 22, 23. And then once it is implemented, then if there is a congestion or some such thing, then it will have to be evaluated with the new investment in transmission. Does it make sense? And so on. So it is as a transmission utility, I do not see this to be a big, I mean, I think it is a development in the market. We are watching. We are keen to see how it evolves. But as a business opportunity or anything, I don't see immediate implications of this to public. Sure. Thank you. Thanks. Next we have Bhavin Vitlani. Bhavin, your line is on mute, go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations for the set of numbers. Thank you. My question is on the capital allocation. In the presentation, you did mention about avenues like data centers and other opportunities. If you could help us, what's the kind of capital that BTCIL is looking to commit towards these new ventures? We are yet to figure out the numbers, what kind of opportunity sets which are there in this. I will be very frank with you. But I'm very sure that these are not numbers which will be very significant given the balance sheet size and the capex which we are doing. You know, even if we allocate a couple of thousand flows there, it is not going to make any dent. And if we can make a good return there, I mean, fine. Sorry to dwell on this, but in your view, what is the right to win for power grid in a data center? What is the? What is the competitive advantage that power grid gets for a data center? There are three advantages. One is the fiber which we have at the substations connecting to the entire country. Second, the availability of electricity, issued electricity. Data centers require a lot of power and there is an assurance at these ISTS points. Third, we have land available at these locations and some of them are close to, you know, cities. So there is the opportunity to set up there. We have identified some seven, eight locations which are reasonably, you know, good locations for setting up data centers. Sure, thank you. Just last question. So we would like to compliment you that you have been increasing the dividend payouts, but I just would like to get your thoughts on buyback versus dividends because the cost of equity is considerably higher than the data and it's always better to pay back the equity. See, there is a technical challenge in buyback because our leverage even today is beyond two is to one. And as for the regulations, we can't do even post buyback, it cannot exceed two is to one. So when we are before buyback two is to one, it is not feasible to do a buyback. That is one point which comes in the way. Appreciate that. Thank you so much for taking your questions. Thanks, Pawel. Next, we have Aniket Mittal. Aniket, go ahead. Your line is on mute. Yes, thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible? Yeah, sure. Thank you. First question is on the dividend front. We've been consistently increasing our payout ratios, but in the current scenario with our KPEX, further declining to around 75 billion and the money that we've received from the Inuit as well, how do we look at payout ratios, let's say from an F520 to 23%? You are not audible, it is breaking. Am I audible now? Yeah. Sure. So my question is on the dividend front. KPEX trajectory is on the decline around, let's say, 75 billion for FI-22 and if you've got sufficient money coming in from the Inuit as well. So just wanted your thoughts on the payout ratios, how do we see that going for FI-22 and 23? They will go upward. You've got any trajectory in mind because the money that we've got from the Inuit is pretty sizable. Yes, at this point, but if you see in my presentation, we have given you that trend which has been going since the last five years and it has been only in one direction. So we will not like to keep ideal cash in any big way and we will definitely up the... See, as I mentioned, bonus also when we declare that final dividend of three, it is effectively becoming instead of 12, 13. So it is a four rupee dividend. So in similar fashion, we would like to maintain and simply pushing up the dividend because this year the capex is low. So I take it to a 90% payout and then next year I'll bring it down. That is not a very fair way of dealing with the investors. So there is an upward bias definitely and we would like to balance between what we need for capex, how to strengthen the balance sheet and also taking care of the investor returns. Okay, sure. So my next question is actually on the ordering front. What's happened is I think you've won quite a few orders this year. If you could just quantify on that, what's the overall new orders that you won in FY21, both from an RTM and TBCB perspective, firstly? The orders which we won are the ISTS, combined tariff about 550 crores. This will have an investment about 550,000 crores. About 2,000 crores in the RTM. We got a mandate. Yeah, 2,000 crores in the RTM. So roughly 7,500 crores is the total order that we won this year? You can say that, yes. Okay, understood. And just to dwell a bit on that because the orders that we've done on TBCB is fairly sort of lumping nature. I mean, the entire five projects that we won are all related to the Rajasthan transmission scheme. I think you've highlighted that certain new projects you're expecting to come in Kharwada and Rajasthan. Could you quantify the size of that? How large could the project cost be for, let's say, the Kharwada transmission project in the Rajasthan one? I expect that roughly if I take a thumb rule of 60 lakhs per megawatt kind of investment. So that is 30 player, 27 plus 20, 47, 47 into 60. So that is about 27, 30,000 crores of investment. So that will be for Kharwada? All together, Kharwada and Rajasthan. Kharwada and Rajasthan together. All right. It's just one question on the TBCB front. Could you tell me, you know, which asset have you capitalized or commissioned this year and which are TBCB assets would you be commissioning in FY 22? This year, we have started with one in the Bihar, one system in Azmir Fagi, that system is complete. Then Mithilanchal, ERSS 21, they are partly commissioned and partly Jirat Mejnipur system also partly commissioned. Going forward in the next couple of months, a few more projects in Rajasthan. Jawaharpur intrastate system, we have completed almost all the lines except for one out of six. Five have been commissioned. One is left, that will be done very shortly. One foundation or one tower something is left in that. So there now we can see more of this TBCB coming to fruition. So from an FY 22 perspective, how do you look at Jawaharpur, Azmir, Mithinapur and Mithilanchal? Yes. As I mentioned, around 6,000 kind of number, I can see in FY 22 from TBCB capitalization. Just maybe one last question, you know, on the TBCB front as well, you know, the five assets that we monetize now have been essentially been transferred to the Inbit. Could you tell me what were their contributions at a PAT level for FY 21? Okay, I'll just come back. Wait a minute. These five companies which we transferred, PAT you are asking. Yes. 370 crores. 370 crores. Okay. Okay. Thank you. That's it. Thanks, Aniket. 400 plus. Safe, okay. Can I take a couple of questions from the chat box? Please go ahead. So we have a question from Sita Raman. His question is, when the 26% stake across the five units held by power grid will be transferred completely to the power grid Inbit? Second part is, what is the cash expected across different points of time? And when do you expect this cash to come back to you? For this 26%? So the 26% will be transferred from February 22 to January 24 progressively. There are five assets. So five of them will have different dates. We expect something around 8, 900 crores of cash out of this 26% residual. And it will be spread over these two years. Sure. Thank you. Second, we have a question from Mehul. He wants to know what is the plan for EB business? I think EB means EB charging. EB business we want to expand, but at the same time, you know, in terms of its contribution to the top line or bottom line, it is absolutely not there today. We can expand, but it is still, we are trying, we have now submitted a bid for setting up EV stations in Navi Mumbai, some 30 EV stations, each with 16 points or so. We are looking at these opportunities, but at the same time, we are going a little slow on this because, as I mentioned, revenue generating potential, their addition to the bottom line is so miniscule. Sure. Can we take the next question? Next question is from Shubhdeep Mitra. Shubhdeep, go ahead. Good morning, sir. So my question refers to the fact that, you know, given that we have had significant TBCB wins in, you know, the latter half of FY21 and we are also looking at, you know, some more projects coming up for awards in FY22. Do you see a possibility of an uptake in your FY23 capex number? Possible. It is possible, definitely. With whatever we have in hand, this is projection, but suppose tomorrow we win two more projects and the target is 18 months, some amount will add to this. And we are also trying to improve upon what we have on this target. But, you know, there has been some setback in terms of the second wave. So we have almost lost two months in the first quarter, but we have a lot of push from the government also to speed up the capex. Understood. Secondly, the second question is with regard to the employee cost that has come in fourth quarter. There seems to be a spike of about, you know, close to about 150 odd crores on a QOQ basis. Just wanted to understand if there is a one-off item over there. Okay. One, it is partly because of the new builds. So there will be a little bit more shift from capex to op-ex. That is one. Second, there has been, you know, we are required to contribute 30% of our basic employee basic towards retirement benefits. So what was estimated as contribution towards our creativity or other liabilities, when we did the actual valuation at the end, actual valuation, those things came out a bit less and we had to make about 50 crore contribution more in the last quarter for all the year. So that is a kind of, you can say a one-off. And another is that this year, our PF trust earnings were lower than the statutory limit of 8.5%. So we had to contribute there as well. So these are the reasons which have come in the last quarter, but I'm sure next year onwards, we will definitely be accruing it in a much more better fashion. Understood. Shubhdeep, can we take the other ones? Please go ahead. Thank you. Next question is from Dhruv Murchal. Dhruv, go ahead, please. Yes. Thank you so much, sir. So two quick ones. So on the TBCB side, you mentioned that the levelized tariff is 550 crores for the new wins and the capex is 5,000 crores. So this implies a revenue yield of about 10 odd percent, which seems a bit low. I don't have the detailed tariff schedule. But the revenue yield seems low, which suggests the IRRs probably are low. So what am I missing? Is 5,000 a bit conservative? No, no. If you see the past in terms of TBCB assets, the levelized tariffs have been, the winning bids have been in this range. Okay. Because I see your history. It has been, versus the executed project cost, it has been higher. So probably nobody will have a detailed work on this later. Because it depends if it is a line, the tariff will be much lower. If it is a substation, it will be higher. So there is no one size fits all for getting this kind of a relationship. Yes. But I'm looking at from the project cost perspective. So that handles everything, right? Project cost, if it is a line, for example, the entire thing is only line, your tariff will be much lower. If it is entirely substation, you will have a much higher percentage of substation. Yeah, got it. But really, got it. Probably I'll take it offline. And secondly, was on the solar thing you mentioned, is there any concrete plans on the quantum of capacity that you're planning to put? We have initiated the discussion and we have identified land. I think around 2000 acres of land is there in aggregate. Around 2000 acres of land. 1700 to 2000 acres we could identify at different parts of the country. We are exploring that. So maybe it can potentially give about 350 to 400 kind of megawatts of installed capacity. So this is only for the objectives to just to utilize the surplus land. It is not about entering the solar generation space. At this point, no. Thank you so much. That's all. Thanks. Thanks, Ruh. The next question is from Swarnil Maheshwari. Swarnil, go ahead. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Thank you. Sir, just one question. If you can just tell us, what is the rationale for not buying the, for not transferring the entire 100 percent state? We understand that there are CRC guidelines about one, three and five years for transferring the state. But then doesn't it make sense to transfer the economic interest right in the one book? There is a, you know, transmission service agreement which provides the kind of locking. So we, as a developer, are required as per the bid document to keep at least 26 percent for five years. So that is the genesis for this. Transferring economic interest was not feasible in totality because of the regulatory regime. We would have been very happy to give lock stock barrel all the monies coming out of this project, but it could not be done. We are required to do another valuation at the due date for the 26 percent and accordingly, you know, decide the valuation. There is a commitment to transfer 26 percent in the share purchase agreement. So we will be transferring it. And the valuation which has been done factors that these will also be transferred in future. Sir, I understand that the understanding was that it was possible to transfer the economic interest also. So what are you going to do with the balance of the assets that will be transferred to the PGNWIT? Will it be on the piecemeal basis or that will be again done on a 100 percent economic interest? Sorry, I could not understand this transferring economic interest you are talking about. So for the remainder of the TBCP assets that we have, whether we will be following that TSA protocol only, transferring 51 percent stake after three years? For any asset, we will do the same because what we had learned from this first round is that we cannot transfer this 26 percent in any manner and get some money upfront. It was not proven. We need the various alternatives. So if there is some better alternative, I will offline talk to you and take it. Sure, sir. I'll take it offline, sir. Thank you. No, no. Mute. Harsh, you are mute. Apologies, sorry. Next, we have a question from Abhneesh Tiwari. Abhneesh, go ahead. Hi. Am I audited? Yes. Thank you. As renewable mix in the energy is going up and you highlighted one of the aspects about storage, can you help us understand what is the progress either in terms of development or feasibility as you move around grid storage and when do you think we can start putting some money behind it? Yes. So, you know, the storage now, the CERP has also come up with the ancillary service regulations and then CA is also looking for about 27 gigawatts of storage by 2030 in their report. So I believe that in another, say, three, four years, this will really pick up. So when we are talking of a transmission system in lay for 10 gigawatts, there is also a talk of, you know, can storage be a part of this so that the transmission system can be optimized? So there is now that deliberations are now more focused on talking of size, larger size, 100 megawatts or larger kind of capacities. I believe that in another, say, three, four years, we should see serious money going into these storage systems. And from a unit capital outlay point of view, what is the rough ballpark, let's say, for 100 megawatts we will need to deploy? That will be very hazardous because the prices of storage are falling. So any number you say today will be much higher tomorrow. Okay, great. Thank you. If you are muted, please unmute yourself. Thanks, Abhishek. Next, we have a question from Ankur Divre. Ankur, go ahead. Hi. Am I audible? That's right. Sir, there was a question. Most of my other questions have been answered. There was one question related to one-offs previously. Just a follow-up on that. On your standalone fourth quarter number, I understand there is a number of... Your voice is breaking, please. Sir, am I better now? Is my voice audible now? Yeah. Yeah. So my question was a follow-up on the one-offs question earlier. I understand on your fourth quarter standalone number, there's a prior period sales number of about 400 crores. Any other one-off other than the employees one that you mentioned earlier, especially on the other expenses part because they've come in fairly low at 550 crores? No, there is no such thing. Okay, no other one-off other than these two. Okay. Thanks, Ankur. Next, we have a question from Charyanjit Singh. Please go ahead. Your line is un-mute. Hello, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So just want to understand on the state side, what is the kind of opportunity size which you see and where all we are planning to do the tie-ups in order to getting onto the state transmission lines. That's my intuition. The state side, very difficult. We have been giving numbers in the past, but then those numbers have not really come to fruition. So I would not like to put a number there. We need to really go out and more pitch with the states. Some of the states are coming up with TBCB, MP, UP, now Rajasthan has also started, but many states are doing it on their own. So now there is also a talk of, you know, making the coastal state infrastructure resilient from the cyclones. So I think there is an opportunity there. They are talking of underground cables or converting the AIS into GIS and so on. So those are the things which we need to develop, and then I think power grid has to market itself, market the product, and get into that mindset. Sure. Any follow-up, Charyanjit? Thanks, Harsh. That's all from my side. All right. Thank you. So next, we have a question from Puneet Gulati. Puneet, go ahead. No, thanks. My question has been answered. All right. Thank you. Then we have a question from Apurva Bahadur. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, there was a certain news item that the government had asked states to come up with, basically, the islanding of large metropolitan cities, islanding of the power systems. I wanted to understand from you if you have been involved working with the governments on this and what type of opportunities, because I think in Mumbai recently there was a large HVDC order in this term. Diction. I last request our director of operations to answer this. I think if I understood your question correctly, it is the islanding being talked about, the cities. Right, ma'am. Actually, islanding depends upon that we isolate certain load along with the generation. So that is a scheme. It's only the scheme level. I don't think any new investment would come. It can come in a few cities. If there is no generation available, they can take the generation. See, typically islanding means making self-sufficient geographies which have their own generation and distribution network and load, so that in the event of any eventuality, they can separate themselves and, you know, be independent. So that would be more of identifying which units of generation which loads and electrically isolate them. So we don't see much of a transmission investment there. It is more about protection systems and the operating protocols or the grid operation protocols which will come into play there. Okay, go ahead, sir. Thank you so much. We have a question from... Sorry, give me a minute. We have a question from Krishna Kumar. Please go ahead. No, sir, my question is answered. Alright, thank you. I think we've completely run out of time. And in case you have further questions, participants, please drop me a line. I'll pass them to the Power Grid management and have them answer. Alternatively, you can also directly write to the IR cell of Power Grid, and I'm sure they'll do the needful. But meanwhile, I'd like to thank you all for logging on to the Power Grid Analyst Meet. And sincere thanks to the management team for giving us an insight into the future and explaining the opportunities ahead. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Haisa.