Windlas Biotech Limited has informed the Exchange about Transcript of Analysts/Institutional Investor Meet/Con. Call
Windlas Biotech Limited
Reg. Off.: 40/1, Mohabewala Industrial Area Dehradun, Uttarakhand 248 110, India Tel.:+91-135-6608000-30, Fax:+91-135-6608199
Corp. Off.: 705-706, Vatika Professional Point, Sector-66, Golf Course Ext. Road, Gurgaon, Haryana 122 001, India Tel.:+91-124-2821030
CIN-L74899UR2001PLC033407
Ref No. WBL/SE/2022-2023
August 9, 2022
To Listing / Compliance Department BSE Limited Phiroze Jeejeebhoy Towers Dalal Street, Mumbai – 400 001
To Listing / Compliance Department National Stock Exchange of India Limited Exchange Plaza, C-1, Block G Bandra Kurla Complex Bandra (E), Mumbai – 400 051
BSE CODE: 543329
NSE SYMBOL: WINDLAS
Dear Sir/ Madam,
Subject: Q1 FY23 Earnings Conference Call Transcript
Pursuant to Regulation 30 of SEBI (Listing Obligations and Disclosure Requirements) Regulations, 2015, please find
attached herewith Q1 FY23 Earnings Conference Call Transcript.
You are requested to take the same on record.
Thanking you,
Yours faithfully,
For Windlas Biotech Limited
Ananta Narayan Panda Company Secretary & Compliance Officer
Encl: as above
www.windlas.com
“Windlas Biotech Ltd. Q1 FY23 Earnings Conference Call”
August 5, 2022
Disclaimer: E&OE - This transcript is edited for factual errors. In case of discrepancy, the audio recordings uploaded on the stock exchange on 05th August 2022 will prevail.
MANAGEMENT: MR. HITESH WINDLASS – MANAGING DIRECTOR,
WINDLAS BIOTECH LIMITED MS. KOMAL GUPTA – CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, WINDLAS BIOTECH LIMITED
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Moderator:
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Windlas Biotech Limited Q1 FY'23 Earnings
Windlas Biotech Limited August 5, 2022
Conference Call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the
company which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date
of this call. These statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and
uncertainties that are difficult to predict.
As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an
opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance
during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing ‘*’ then ‘0’ on your touchtone
phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Hitesh Windlass – Managing Director at Windlas Biotech
Limited. Thank you, and over to you sir.
Hitesh Windlass:
Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us to discuss today our financial results for
quarter-ended June 30, 2022.
We have uploaded the press release and investor presentation on our website as well as on the
exchanges. I hope that everybody must have gotten an opportunity to go through it.
Initially, I would like to discuss key company highlights for Q1 FY'23, followed by financial
highlights of the company, which will be shared by our CFO, Ms. Komal Gupta.
The company reported a top line growth of 8.1% for Q1 of FY'23, which was mainly on acccount
of robust growth in the trade generic vertical, which witnessed a growth of 73.2% YoY.
CDMO vertical also reported a resilient performance and remained largely flattish on a YoY
basis to Rs.94.8 crores. the growth in CDMO was slightly below our expectations, which is
impacted due to product mix and high base on a YoY basis owing to the second wave of COVID-
19 in FY'22 Q1. However, the company continued its focus on improving the product mix by
increasing the contribution from complex generic products. Products in these focus categories
offer new growth opportunities, along with better realization. With the focus presence in unique
value proposition, the company was able to pass on increase in raw material prices to the end
consumers, thus, protecting the margins despite the sustained inflationary pressure on input cost.
The company has accelerated its R&D spending. In the recent past as the company continues to
advance towards being a partner, as opposed to a supplier to the key domestic pharma customers.
This has also helped the customers get a first mover advantage for innovative products in the
domestic market, resulting in turn into value creation for them and reinforcing their position in
the market. With accelerated R&D, we will further expedite product innovation and faster rollout
of products under our pipeline. Although, this is expected to impact the margins to some extent
in the short run, we believe that in the long-term, it will build up and reinforce top line as well
as return ratios.
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Windlas Biotech Limited August 5, 2022
In the trade generics vertical, the company is seeing a very strong traction driven by rapid
addition of stockists and distributors. The growth in this vertical is expected to remain robust as
there is a tremendous untapped opportunity in this space that company continues to leverage.
Exports vertical is also expected to grow with recent SAHPRA and EU GMP certification which
have facilitated entry into newer and semi-regulated markets.
CDMO vertical too is poised to grow through a foray into patent expiry launches, growing wallet
share from existing customers, new customer addition and launching unique products, supported
by our accelerated R&D, and a planned capacity for injectable dosage form.
I will now request Ms. Komal Gupta, our CFO to discuss the financial performance highlights.
Komal Gupta:
Thank you, Hitesh. Good afternoon, everyone. The company reported resilient financial
performance amid multiple headwinds such as the sustained inflationary nature of input costs,
supply chain interruption and numerous geopolitical risks. For Q1 FY'23 consolidated revenue,
EBITDA and PAT grew by 8.1%, 11.4% and 46.6% respectively to Rs.119.9 crores, Rs.13.8
crores and Rs.9.8 crores. EBITDA margin for the quarter stood at 11.5% compared to 11.2%
YoY. The margin expansion would have been higher in the absence of accelerated R&D costs,
and product development and registration costs. However, R&D will continue to remain a key
focus area as the company expects to reap the benefits of it in the years to come.
Now, coming to the Vertical Wise Highlights: CDMO Vertical. Q1 FY'23 revenue remained
largely stable at Rs.94.8 crores. CDMO vertical contributed approximately 79% for Q1 FY'23
to consolidated revenue.
Trade Generics Vertical. Q1 FY'23 revenue for trade generics stood at Rs.21.4 crores, up 73.2%
YoY. Trade generics vertical contributed approximately 18% for Q1 FY'23 to the consolidated
revenue.
Q1 FY'23 revenue for Exports vertical stood at Rs.1.9 crores compared to Rs.2.2 crores YoY.
Exports vertical contributed approximately 2% for Q1 FY'23 consolidated revenue.
That's all from our side. We can now begin the Q&A session. Thank you.
Moderator:
We will now begin the question-and-answer session. First question is from the line of Nisha
Desai from NM Securities. Please go ahead.
Nisha Desai:
I have a couple of questions. My first question is regarding the gross margin. We have seen that
the gross margin has improved on YoY basis and as well there's also improvement in EBITDA
margins despite the R&D costs. Can you highlight some reasons behind that?
Hitesh Windlass:
I can speak a little bit about the business context and then I'll request Komal to also speak about
some of the numerical numbers context. So, as you have seen that our trade generics vertical has
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registered a very strong growth. And as we have also mentioned in the past, trade generics overall
is a higher material margin business for us. And our long-term objective is indeed to strengthen
and bolster this vertical more and more. So, some of our work in the field in terms of creating
an umbrella branding image for Windlas generic is paying off. Our engagement with the
stockists and distributors is also showing signs of very strong traction. And that is why the
growth in trade generics has exceeded what we had thought, and we believe that it will therefore
have an overall impact on improving the material margins, also, it should reflect in the EBITDA
margins as well.
Komal Gupta:
So, just to add, this is in line with what we have been saying that as trade generics and exports
contribution to the overall revenue increases, we will have growth in margins. So, this quarter,
as we were able to bring in growth in trade generics vertical, that has resulted in EBITDA and
material margin per cent growth. EBITDA margin growth, as rightly mentioned by Nisha, is a
little lesser than the material margin growth caused by R&D expenses increase. And in spite of
that, there is increase, and if the R&D costs would not have increased, we would have recorded
a higher growth, but R&D expenses as everyone understands an important area to focus on for
future building of business.
Nisha Desai:
My second question is out of IPO proceeds utilization for the injectables, CAPEX has been very
low. So, what are the reasons behind that and do we need Rs.50 crores to complete this CAPEX?
Hitesh Windlass:
CAPEX has been low, as we have been negotiating on the machinery. Some of the initial
machineries that we were looking at were imported machinery and due to various geopolitical
reasons, we decided to change track and go for domestic machinery manufacturers, because the
uncertainty in delivery times would otherwise have some impact. However, the CAPEX
proceeds were to be spent over a period of about two years, and we expect that in FY' 23, we
will come very close to the proposed value in terms of CAPEX for injectable, and this amount
should be sufficient to cover the project costs. So, we are not expecting any escalation in costs.
Moderator:
The next question is from the line of Aakash Mehta from Capaz Investment. Please go ahead.
Aakash Mehta:
So, I just have a couple of questions. One is on the export market. So, have we started selling to
the export markets post the successful completion of the audits of EU GMP and SAPHRA? And
also, is there any pipeline for regulatory approval from the non-US developed markets?
Hitesh Windlass:
I will take your second question first. The SAHPRA, South Africa, basically is one of the
regulated non-US markets. And yes, we have a pipeline, couple of products we have filed for
registration and our commercial partner over there is Cipla, which is one of the largest presence
in South Africa itself. So, we are expecting that dossier approval to come through. The timing
really depends on the agency's review. But we are expecting it to come through soon. And for
the EU GMP certification that we have got for our plant-IV, our strategy is, again, as you rightly
said, non-US regulated as well as some semi-regulated markets. And there, we are looking at
various opportunities to build our pipeline both organic as well as inorganic.
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Aakash Mehta:
On the US FDA front, are we planning to invite them soon? And if yes, what's the timeline for
that?
Hitesh Windlass:
On the US FDA front, we have completed our complete remediation and given the final response
to US FDA. My understanding is that the timing of their coming back to the site, depends on
their prioritization in terms of their own audit queues. But we are ready. And although, we don't
have any commercial products anymore over there, but from a completeness of responsibility
towards regulatory compliance, we are ready.
Aakash Mehta:
So, no tentative timeline?
Hitesh Windlass:
They do not provide any visibility or schedule.
Komal Gupta:
So, no tentative timeline, but we do not have any plan of building a business in US.
Hitesh Windlass:
Correct. We are also not looking at commercializing of any of our ANDAS there.
Moderator:
The next question is from the line of Nitin Agarwal from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Nitin Agarwal:
Hitesh, on the India CDMO business, this year, there's been a slew of diabetes off patent expiries
have happened and likely to happen. And diabetes has been one of our core areas. Somehow
we've not seen the traction coming through in our business on that account. How should we look
at CDMO business now going forward?
Hitesh Windlass:
See, one big patent expiry in diabetes actually happened on 6th of July, Nitin. So, my sense is
the impact of that and how much share in that we are able to garner we will see in Q2. But yes,
that is a great opportunity, and we are looking at various commercialization in that space with
the Sitagliptin and its various combinations. My sense is that when we read at Q1-to-q1
comparison, we have to sort of keep in perspective that the overall Indian pharma market had a
tough quarter. So, there was a volume degrowth, while the chronic therapies did well, and we
are in the chronic space, many of our customers were also adjusting inventories, waiting for
prices to come down to then stock up again. So, there is that transient aspects and supply chain
issues also have hampered to some extent our ability to quickly convert and shift within the
timeframe. So, my sense is that strategically and structurally, there is no change. We expect the
CDMO vertical also on the back of our new product launches and patent expiries like you
mentioned, to come back into growth phase.
Nitin Agarwal:
But, likewise, if you also have the Vildagliptin expiry happening last year, which is again our
largest molecule, but we didn't see much of a bump up in our numbers because of that. So, what
kind of opportunities essentially fall in our target segment given the fact that chronic is what
we're focusing on, just trying to figure out why has it not reflected in our sort of customer traction
on the very large molecules like Vilda? Sita, you mentioned it's going to probably reflect in Q2
onwards.
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Hitesh Windlass:
So, in Vilda also, we have several brands that we are manufacturing, but Vilda was a very unique
Windlas Biotech Limited August 5, 2022
case, Nitin, because a lot of the large cardiovascular players launched it from in-house. So, the
diabetes, players in the Indian pharma market launched it from in-house. So, Vilda didn't turn
out for the CDMO industry to be very large of an opportunity. Now, there is another space
opening up when the product comes off-patent, its combination with other molecules which have
been previously off-patent, also gets unlocked in that opportunity. So, we have a few things in
our pipeline, which we are working on. And we still remain bullish in terms of the long-term
potentials of these patent expiry molecules. So, even though things may not have jumped in our
numbers immediately, but these are very strong good therapies and are becoming reference in
terms of fixed dose combinations for physicians when we have several ideas in our pipeline
where we are bringing these off-patent entity along with the previously expired patent entity as
a fixed dose combination. So, I am expecting some momentum to come in future in this.
Nitin Agarwal:
So, structurally, CDMO business for us still remain like on a compounding basis, early teen,
mid-teen growth business, because you've struggled for the last few quarters now because of
various reasons?
Hitesh Windlass:
So, definitely going into last year and this year, we were looking at CDMO business to come
with some strong growth numbers. But as you see from an overall market perspective also, aside
from, let's say, one or two players, most companies have had a tough time, our customers have
had a tough time in driving volume. So, the overall growth in the market in terms of rupee value
has been bolstered by the price increases that customers have taken, which we don't participate
in. But despite that, what we are finding is that in the CDMO space, the opportunity will be
driven by new launches. And this is something that our customers also value very deeply with
us. And we are still converting customers, and we are bringing new products in. So, my sense is
that on the back of this, we will gain traction. Now, whether it happens on a quarterly basis, we'll
be able to see it or not, I'm not sure, but, at least on a long-term basis, our guidance has been that
we want to double this business over five years and we are still targeting that.
Nitin Agarwal:
Secondly, on the injectables CAPEX, what is the timelines for it now in terms of the
commercialization of the plant-III on the business?
Hitesh Windlass:
So, on the injectable facility, our timeline was end of this financial year. So, March is where we
wanted to have a first commercial batch. We are still working with that same targeted timeline
in mind. Obviously, it is dependent on media fill and completion of the validation for the
injectable facility. But the change from imported to domestic machinery manufacturers was done
in order to essentially bring some definiteness in the timeline and still try to make our original
target date. So, I will be able to give a better update probably in this quarter in terms of if there
is any impact. As of now, we are maintaining the same.
Nitin Agarwal:
Last one on the generic, generic business, obviously, correct me if I'm wrong on that, so there
are two parts of the business. One is a), the generic-generic business that you do on your own
which essentially is what reflected in the growth that you've achieved. Is there a largest generic-
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generic opportunities we're also getting on the CDMO side? And how was the dynamics for the
CDMO business on generic-generic versus the branded business if that opportunities available
for us?
Hitesh Windlass:
On the generic side, customers definitely are getting their generic products also manufactured
by us. As you would have seen, there were recent announcement by a slew of large branded
companies that they are going to trade generics, so, Mankind, Erythro, many others made some
of these announcements, and as a business partner, we are supporting them. For us the thought
process has been that obviously we will maintain the same quality standards regardless of it is a
branded generic product for a customer or a trade generics product for a customer or a trade
generics product for under our own brand. We have sort of not differentiated in terms of our
economics or in terms of our expectation from manufacturing contracts, whether the end use
may be for trade generic or whether the end use may be for branded generic. My sense is that
the trade generics is catching more and more momentum.
Nitin Agarwal:
And for us, economics, if I got it right are similar?
Hitesh Windlass:
I am sorry, Nitin, that was not very clear. Could you repeat the question?
Nitin Agarwal:
I'm saying the economics for us are similar whether we're doing a trade generic product or a
branded generic product to the customer.
Hitesh Windlass:
Yes, for us, they are similar, because we are a cost plus business, and our value proposition is
that we will be the guardians of quality. So, from that perspective, we expect the same kind of
realization regardless of the end use of how are customers marketing it in the channel.
Moderator:
The next question is from the line of Sharad Agarwal from SK Capital Partners. Please go ahead.
Sharad Agarwal:
Just extending the question which has been asked recently on CDMO, I think my understanding
is that you have the capacity, you're one of the top players in the industry. So, by definition, you
should have a lot of demand, and I think demand has not been a general challenge in industry is
what I understand given the robust growth in the sector. I see our capacity utilization is still sub-
50%. So, how are you thinking about that… are you aggressively selling the capacity, do you
expect growth in that sector? And I understand your point on the end customers not being, but
still what's our plan on the CDMO side.
Hitesh Windlass:
Sharad, we have been somewhat disciplined in terms of our margin expectation as well as the
kind of contracts that we will take up. In a B2B environment, if you get desperate to fill capacity,
you very quickly lose margin. And so, our focus has been to not go after the largest opportunities,
not go after the smallest and sort of target this medium space, where we are doing something
complex, and we are able to offer a sustainable partnership to our customer. So, in some sense,
yes, the demand is not an issue, the selection of what we bring in-house, our choice to remain
more and more focus on complex products. So, we have been increasing our concentration on
complex generics I think at the end of this quarter, this was somewhere in the range of about
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Windlas Biotech Limited August 5, 2022
75% complex generic. So, we want to continue doing that, because we believe that's the long
term sustainable place where customers need us and we add differentiated value as compared to
some of our competitors.
Komal Gupta:
And just to kind of add to what Hitesh said, our strategy for growth has been new customers
additions. So, we have added more than 75 customers in this quarter. Obviously, the sale might
not come there in this quarter itself, and that should come over a period. Also, we have added
new products. So, there are product launches, which we are continuing, which should bring in
the growth. So, although everything might not happen in a quarter or two, but we are continuing
with the strategy that we have promised and basis that we are confident as Hitesh said that we
still feel confident that we are on track to deliver the committed numbers of doubling the growth.
Moderator:
The next question is from the line of Parth Vasani from KK Advisory. Please go ahead.
Parth Vasani:
I had a couple of questions on R&D side. So, how are we utilizing the R&D spend. Is it
predominantly for the process improvement or for new product launches?
Hitesh Windlass:
So, on R&D I would say almost 85% to 90% is on new product development. What we are doing
is, we are looking at chronic therapies where fixed dose combinations are the treatment of choice
due to drug resistance or physician preferences and things like that, and we are coming up with
more and more options. So, we have for example launched Mirabegron Solifenacin in the
urology segment. That has become a leading combo. I would say most of the market in the
urology segment is taking that formulation from us. Similarly, we are expanding this portfolio
coming up with more and more. So, when we do this, there is a product development cost which
is incurred, there is a bioequivalence, and sometimes there are small clinical trials also that we
have to do and submit that to the Drug Controller General of India. So, that's the basic areas in
which the spend on R&D is happening.
Parth Vasani:
How much is our target for R&D spend in terms of percentage of revenue for FY'23?
Hitesh Windlass:
See, in FY 20-21, we have been about 1% or slightly above that, and long term, we should be
around 2%. So, we don't really sort of curtail R&D from this perspective that we have to stay
within this, but we look at opportunities and do this. So, long term, we believe that we should
be covered sufficiently with a 2% kind of number.
Moderator:
The next question is from the line of Dhruv Jain from TDS Financial. Please go ahead.
Dhruv Jain:
Sir, I have a couple of questions. The CDMO and exports vertical growth has been stagnant on
year-on-year basis. So, what are the reasons behind that?
Hitesh Windlass:
As I mentioned that in the CDMO space, we were coming off of a high Q1 in FY' 21, because
that was the second wave, where a lot of Vitamin C, Ivermectin and combination kits were being
sold even sanitizers and all that. So, all of that obviously is no longer being sold. And we have
replaced a lot of that with the new product launches that we have done, as well as other contracts
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Windlas Biotech Limited August 5, 2022
that we have extended or gotten more customers for existing formulations that we are
manufacturing. So, on the CDMO side, this is one reason where we believe Q1 of last year was
a higher Q1, because of the second wave COVID. However, if you look at Q1 overall for the
industry, there has also been a volume growth of negative 8%, 9% and we have been still able
to maintain a flat this thing. So, my sense is that some of our new launches also are going to
come up in subsequent quarters. Structurally, no change, but these are some of the reasons which
have had a play on the flatness of growth. On the exports side, it's a very small base that we
have. So, in the clients who are buying from us, they have their own buying cycle. So, we are
still expecting exports to show growth overall in a full year basis. So, that remains. We don't see
it as an area, any trend change or anything over there for us to comment on.
Dhruv Jain:
And sir, can we expect like around Rs.450 crores from CDMO vertical for FY'23?
Hitesh Windlass:
Ma'am, we have not been giving yearly guidance. So, I cannot comment on that.
Dhruv Jain:
Sir, share of trade generics has gone up significantly to of course 18% from the range 10% to
12%. So, do we expect it to remain in this range or should revert to normal average in the coming
quarter?
Hitesh Windlass:
Ma'am, we are doing a lot of work to bolster the trade generics vertical. So, as I mentioned that
because this is a higher gross margin vertical for us, and we also don't have a model where there's
a large medical reps-based field force. So, in this vertical, any growth that comes is definitely
more rewarding for the company in terms of bottom line. So, our endeavor definitely is to make
it stronger and we are also doing many branding activities, where umbrella branding, to talk
about high quality, Windlas generic has been going on in the sales channel. So, some of these
things are yet to further show impact. So, for us, this is a very healthy sign and we want to
continue to build this for sure.
Moderator:
The next question is from the line of Viraj Shah from Shah Investment. Please go ahead.
Viraj Shah:
Sir, I have a couple of questions. Are you planning to do any CDMO for international pharma
companies through these regulatory approvals, or we will only do exports throughout our
brands?
Hitesh Windlass:
No, we are evaluating and we have ongoing conversations for also doing CDMO for export
markets. Although the cycle time for concluding a contract, doing the tech transfers and initiating
commercialization for international markets are longer, because customers’ dossier has to be
updated with our site and the data on batches taken at our site. But, yes, definitely, that's an area
and we are working on it.
Viraj Shah:
And sir, have we started any manufacturing CDMO or trade generics for recent anti-diabetic
diabetic products?
Hitesh Windlass:
Sorry, could you ask that question again?
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Windlas Biotech Limited August 5, 2022
Viraj Shah:
Sir, have we started any manufacturing for CDMO or trade generics for recent patient anti-
diabetic product?
Hitesh Windlass:
Yes, yes, definitely. In CDMO, we have more than 210 brands of diabetes products being sold.
And in trade generics vertical, which is our own branded vertical, also, we have several diabetes
products, that portfolio itself has more than 200 products. And so there also diabetes is a major
component. But in CDMO, yes, definitely, we are selling Vildagliptin combinations,
Teneligliptin combinations, Metformin-Glimepiride combinations, lots of combinations,
Sitagliptin, also, we have commercialized on day zero for several clients. So, yes, it remains a
key focus area and we are continuing to build on that.
Moderator:
The next question is from the line of Yogesh Tiwari from Arihant Capital. Please go ahead.
Yogesh Tiwari:
My first question is basically in your presentation; you have mentioned that the CDMO industry
is expected to increase by about 15% on a CAGR basis till FY'25. So, then we assume that the
company CDMO business would also increase in that range going forward.
Hitesh Windlass:
The guidance that we had given was that in five years, we will be sort of doubling our business
in CDMO. And if we look at that, then neighborhood of this number is what was our belief that
we will be able to achieve. If you see in our past, we have had years where CDMO business has
grown in single digits, but we have also had years where it has grown in above 20% also. So,
this is a growth that is possible in the industry and we are exploring various ways to achieve that.
Yogesh Tiwari:
So, we can assume that between FY22 and FY27 the CDMO business would double revenues,
am I correct?
Hitesh Windlass:
Yes.
Yogesh Tiwari:
Sir, secondly, what would be the margin differential between the CDMO business and the trade
generics?
Komal Gupta:
Trade generics maybe 4% to 5% higher than our CDMO business margin.
Yogesh Tiwari:
Currently, like trade generics is about 19%. So, what would be the targeted revenue contribution
two, three years down the line?
Hitesh Windlass:
So, what we have said is that in the long-term five year basis, we look to double our CDMO,
triple our trade generics and quadruple our exports business. Of course, right now, the growth
rate that we are seeing is far, far beyond tripling, but obviously, we are on a smaller base right
now, last year, we did about Rs.61 crores. So, we have to see. But, this is an area of great
opportunity, because a lot of the tier-2 and tier-3 class towns and villages cannot be catered by
the branded generic model. So, if you see, there are only about 400-odd towns and cities, which
have more than one lakh population in India, and there are six and a half lakh villages and kasbas
which are having lower than that population. And in these places, there are very few doctors, the
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Windlas Biotech Limited August 5, 2022
patients have to travel and get medicines. So, branded generic model doesn't work in these
places. And it's only through the chemists channel people able to access these medicines. So,
this is the area of focus for trade generics. And our idea and philosophy is that we will give
authentic, affordable and accessible products in this trade generics vertical is what we are leading
with. So, we believe that the overall potential is much higher. Obviously, then you have to
balance it, because when you're selling across India to 600, 700 stockists with a very small sales
force, then you want to make sure that collections are very healthy. So, we keep a strong
discipline on that and that's how we are growing. So, I give a long answer, but –
Komal Gupta:
So, in three to four years, I think 15% to 20% of the overall revenue contribution is what we
would want to keep.
Yogesh Tiwari:
Currently, I think it is 19% trade generics.
Hitesh Windlass:
That's correct, in the similar range. Because right now CDMO, our exports growth is not as much
and we are hoping to really bring it in the long-term as we said. So, overall, with the higher
revenue, it should still remain in this range of 15% to 20%. So, I'm not saying that TG will not
grow, I'm saying that others will also grow and that's why overall contribution should be in this
range of 15% to 20%.
Yogesh Tiwari:
And in the CDMO segment, I assume that you have 285 clients as of FY'22. So, we have added
another 75 clients in this quarter. So, it's like 365 clients as of now, if I am correct?
Komal Gupta:
It doesn't work like that. Every time, the sale does not happen to all the customers. That's how it
works. So, the number of customers that we have served in this quarter are more than 200, but
there have been growth and there have been no sales to a few customers. That's how it works.
Moderator:
The next question is from the line of Deepti Kothari from Kothari Securities. Please go ahead.
Deepti Kothari:
So, my first question was that how much is the current capacity utilization?
Komal Gupta:
It is in the range of 40%.
Deepti Kothari:
Do we have something solid in the pipeline for inorganic growth?
Hitesh Windlass:
So, ma'am, we're looking at various ideas and we are evaluating several of them. But I cannot
comment in terms of timing, whether we will end up proceeding on one or more of them or not.
So, as such, however, as you know we are a very strong cash flow generating company and we
have strong reserves also in terms of almost Rs.200 crores being on our balance sheet. So, we
are looking to have a good strategic selection and want to explore this definitely, but, as of now,
something is not finalized, so, I cannot comment.
Moderator:
The next question is from the line of Yogesh Tiwari from Arihant Capital. Please go ahead.
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Windlas Biotech Limited August 5, 2022
Yogesh Tiwari:
I just had some follow up questions on the CDMO business. So, if you can share some details
on what is the pipeline like in the CDMO business, and like how it is shaping up basically for
the second half of this year?
Hitesh Windlass:
Are you asking about the R&D pipeline?
Yogesh Tiwari:
I mean to say how is the interaction with the clients and how do you see the business or new
plant expected to come in the CDMO business?
Hitesh Windlass:
Yes, definitely. See, we are looking at three ways to grow the CDMO business. One is taking
our existing product portfolio to new clients. The second is to add new products and offer them
to both old and new clients. So, we have now a team of almost 13 business development
managers under an able leadership of our chief business officer who is sort of building this
pipeline together with the conversations with our clients, medical team, regulatory team,
marketing team and outsourcing team. And certainly, the idea is to bring the capabilities of the
company capacity, product development, quality, and innovation. I was just saying that we have
a business development team which engages with all our clients, and definitely there is a pipeline
of queries and project commercialization with clients new products as well as old products, new
brands, new variants, all of that definitely is there. And those conversations and our innovation
pipeline is what gives us the confidence that we will be able to bring some growth back into this
vertical as well.
Yogesh Tiwari:
Just wanted to understand what would be the drivers for margin expansion within CDMO. So,
one would be like, if you can increase the complex generics within the CDMO. So, if you can
share some thoughts on it, what would be the contribution from complex generics and along
those lines if possible?
Hitesh Windlass:
If you see the CDMO space, there are two kinds of people who are working in the 7% to 8%
EBITDA, and then people like Windlas who have in the range of 10%, 11% or like 11.5% for
us this quarter. So, largely CDMO players are grouped in these two categories. So, any margin
expansion that is going to come in CDMO is going to come from operating leverage, which is
basically better capacity utilization. So, as we have more orders, and as we deliver higher
numbers in a quarter, our fixed costs don't change that much, and therefore, that will cause the
improvement in margins. As such, we are a cost-plus business. So, you have seen that despite
all the input pricing pressure over the last year, Metformin prices went up by 3x, 4x, Paracetamol,
huge changes, we have still been able to maintain our margins. So, part of the model with us is
in CDMO that we are a cost-plus business. So, we tend to have some stability, which is because
of this margin. Therefore, I believe that we will have better margins through in unlocking
operational efficiencies at our end rather than anything else. So, my sense is that CDMO margins
will improve with capacity utilization. And if we expand and put a new capacity to cater for the
future years, then obviously, those changes will be there. I would look at gross margin as a more
representative number to look at the space overall.
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Yogesh Tiwari:
So, what would be like the gross margin differential approximately between complex generics
and other non-complex generics division?
Hitesh Windlass:
As I mentioned, this quarter 75% of our output has been on complex generics. So, if you look at
Windlas Biotech Limited August 5, 2022
our competitors, who are operating maybe in the 7%, 8% EBITDA range, and their gross margin
might be in the range of 20% to 25%, then you could probably compare and make that call. We
also don't categorize to that level, where if a customer needs a simple product also manufactured
from us, we will not say no. So, we will take that contract. So, the idea is that the differentiation
between complex generics and simple products is something that we want to, over a long-term
increase, but not just because of margin, we want to increase that, because that is a service that
our customers really value. Because, for the complex products, we become a stable partner for
them. And for the simple products, they can anytime take it in-house or go elsewhere and shift
and do all those things. So, that's sort of the more overall strategic reason to focus on complex.
Yogesh Tiwari:
What would be the average terms of contract under CDMO?
Hitesh Windlass:
In our CDMO contracts, we typically have a five year to kind of contract, some multinational
customers have no termination date, the exact volume or the brands keep on getting added or
subtracted depending on customers. And on an average, our customer relationships have been
more than seven years. We have customers who have been with us for last 20-years. So, since
as a core supplier to their business, and who is also able to bring innovative products to them,
we tend to become more of a partner. So, it's a master services agreement with a long, not really
a sort of a take or pay contract.
Komal Gupta:
After five years, mostly it is renewed. And that's how it works. We don't recall losing any
customer over the period of the life of the customer.
Yogesh Tiwari:
So, within the trade generics, you also go for government tenders. So, what would be the
proportion of that in the overall trade generics revenue?
Hitesh Windlass:
Right now, it's very, very small, it's probably less than, 7%, 8% or 10% max. But going forward,
we expect slowly this also to increase because institutional buying due to Jan Aushadhi,
Ayushman Bharat and all those are increasing. And that again becomes a very strong
opportunity, because only manufacturers can participate in those and they have requirements for
WHO GMP approved manufacturers having three years’ experience and all those qualification
criteria there. It's very small right now, but it remains to be a very viable and long-term good
opportunity that we are also pursuing.
Yogesh Tiwari:
But government contracts in trade generics would be like lower margins, if I am correct?
Hitesh Windlass:
It depends on quite a bit on product-to-product.
Moderator:
As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Mr.
Hitesh Windlass for closing comments.
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Windlas Biotech Limited August 5, 2022
Hitesh Windlass:
Thank you, everyone, for joining us on this call and for your questions. Please reach out to our
IR consultants, Strategic Growth Advisors or us directly should you have any further query. We
can now close the call. Thank you and have a great weekend.
Komal Gupta:
Thank you.
Moderator:
Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf Windlas Biotech Limited, that concludes this conference call.
Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.
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