VRL Logistics Limited has informed the Exchange about Transcript of Analysts/Institutional Investor Meet/Con. Call
Corporate Office:
Giriraj Annexe Circuit House Road HUBBALLI- 580 029 Karnataka State
Phone : 0836- 2237511 Fax : 0836 2256612 e-mail : headoffice@vrllogistics.com
National Stock Exchange of India Limited Exchange Plaza, Plot No. C/1, G-Block, Bandra – Kurla Complex, Bandra (E), Mumbai – 400 051 Scrip Code: - VRLLOG
To,
BSE Limited Phiroze Jeejeebhoy Towers Dalal Street Mumbai- 400 001 Scrip Code: - 539118
Dear Sir / Madam,
Sub: Disclosure under Regulation 30 (6) of the SEBI (Listing Obligations & Disclosure Requirements) Regulations, 2015 – Transcript of the Earnings Presentation Call
In terms of Regulation 30 of the SEBI (Listing Obligation and Disclosure Requirement), Regulations 2015, as amended, please find the attached transcript of the Earnings Presentation call held on 11th November 2022 for your information and records. This information is also available on Company’s website at:
https://www.vrlgroup.in/vrl_investors_desk.aspx?display=investor_concall#
You are requested to kindly take note of the same.
For VRL LOGISTICS LIMITED
ANIRUDDHA PHADNAVIS COMPANY SECRETARY & COMPLIANCE OFFICER
PLACE: HUBBALLI DATE: 12.11.2022
Corporate Office: Giriraj Annexe, Circuit House Road, HUBBALLI- 580 029 Karnataka Phone: 0836 2237511 Fax: 0836- 2256612 e-mail: headoffice@vrllogistics.com
Customer Care: HUBBALLI
0836- 2307800e-mail: customercare@vrllogistics.com
Website: www.vrllogistics.comCIN: L60210KA1983PLC005247GSTIN (KAR): 29AABCV3609C1ZJ
“VRL Logistics Limited Q2 FY'23 Earnings Conference Call”
November 11, 2022
MANAGEMENT: MR. SUNIL NALAVADI – CFO, VRL LOGISTICS
LIMITED.
MODERATOR MR. ALOK DEORA – MOTILAL OSWAL FINANCIAL
SERVICES.
Page 1 of 21
Moderator:
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Q2 FY'23 Earnings Conference Call
of VRL Logistics Limited, hosted by Motilal Oswal Financial Services.
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an
opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance
during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing ‘*’ then ‘0’ on your touchtone
phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Alok Deora from Motilal Oswal Financial Services.
Thank you and over to you Sir!
Alok Deora:
Good morning everyone, and welcome to the 2Q FY'23 Earnings Conference Call for VRL
Logistics. We have with us Mr. Sunil Nalavadi, the CFO of the Company. I would now handover
the call to Mr. Nalavadi to give opening remarks and discuss on the performance of the
Company. Thank you, and over to you, Sir.
Sunil Nalavadi:
Good morning to all participants. I am Sunil Nalavadi here, CFO of VRL Logistics Limited. I
welcome all of you once again for the Earnings Conference Call of the Company for the period
ended September '22.
As we indicated earlier, the Management of the Company is going to focus only on the higher
growth oriented Goods Transport business. In view of the same, we have taken many steps,
including sale of non-goods transport segment which were part of the Company earlier. I also
would like to thank the non-promoter shareholders who have supported our decision by voting
in favor on our decision of sale of bus operations to the promoter entity.
In Goods Transport business, we are taking many key steps to expand our business at
unparalleled growth. The key steps mainly consist of expansion in branch network, addition of
new customers, increase in infrastructure backup, by increasing in our own fleet, enhancements
in the space in the transshipment hubs and branches, route optimization in-line with the increase
in tonnage etc. And this is going to be continued even going forward.
As we envisaged, we are on a track to increase our volume growth by 20% plus in the current
fiscal year, as compared to the last year. During the quarter we have handled total tonnage of
around 966,000 tonnes which is almost 7% more than the previous quarter, and 14% more than
the same quarter of the last year. Further, in the current half year, we have handled totally around
1858000 tonnes, which is 27% more than the last year H1.
With this background, the total revenue of the Company reached to Rs. 733 crores in the current
quarter, which is again the highest ever revenue per quarter as compared to the previous quarters.
This has resulted into year-on-year growth of 15%, and quarterly basis the growth is around 2%.
Page 2 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
The major contribution to the revenue is coming from our Goods Transport segment. And the
revenue from this segment reached to Rs. 650 crores in the current quarter. This has resulted into
14% year-on-year growth and 7% quarter-on-quarter growth. The growth in this segment is
mainly from the increase in volume, without increasing in freight rates.
Apart from the better economic conditions and festive seasons in the current quarter, the increase
in tonnage in Goods Transport segment is also due to expansion in network by the Company.
During the quarter, we have opened around 29 additional branches and from April '21 we have
opened totally around 188 branches. These branches have been contributed around 8% tonnage
this is additional tonnage to the Company.
As we always mentioned that our industry comprises of many of or majority of the small fleet
and unorganized operators, to curb on the evasion of the tax which were supported by the
unorganized operators in India, the government has modified the Eway bill regulations. From
April 2022 onwards, for the business entities who are doing the business of Rs. 20 crores and
above, compulsorily they have to generate a E-invoice.
The same limit has been reduced to Rs. 10 crores from 1st October, 2022. This is further going
to support us because of the increase in the compliances. We hope that the statement by the
government clearly indicates the business transaction needs to be done in a complied and
organized way rather than the non-complied manner, which were being supported by the
unauthorized transporter, while transportation of the goods.
Due to which, we are acknowledging from the market that many of the commodities
transportation, which used to be transported only by the unorganized operators till date, are
gradually shifting to us. To name a few of a product like the coconut product and the leather
product, the areca nut or supari products etc.
On account of shift from unorganized operators and the expansion in our network the base of
the customers has been enhanced to 7 lakh customers as against 4 lakh customer base prior to
COVID.
When it comes to the profitability analysis during the quarter, the EBITDA of the Goods
Transport segment reached to Rs. 101 crores, which is around 8% lesser than the same quarter
of the last year and increased by 1.4% as compared to the previous quarter.
The EBITDA margin of Goods Transport segment in the current quarter is 15.56%, which is
reduced from 19% as compared to the same quarter of the last year, and sequential basis this is
reduced from 16.38%. The detailed profitability analysis along with the reasons have been
provided in Page #10 and #11 of the presentation.
Just to brief some of the reasons behind it. If you see the year-on-year decline in EBTIDA, is
mainly on account of increasing lorry hire charges as a percentage to the revenue. This cost has
Page 3 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
increased from 7.25% to 10.16%. The increase in cost is mainly due to sudden surge in festive
bookings during the fag end of current quarter, especially from Surat and Ahmedabad markets.
And to meet this requirement we were forced to engage hired vehicles, since our own vehicles
were deployed in other routes and geographies. Further, the lorry hire charges per kilometer has
also increased.
The toll charges are impacted in the current quarter and the percentage to the revenue of these
cost has increased from 6% to 7.33%. The increase in toll charges is due to increase in toll plazas,
toll charge rate, and increase in kilometers covered by the owned vehicles. Another increase
impacted on the margin is on account of increase in the employee cost, which has increased from
13.76% to 14.91% due to annual increment effected in January 2022.
The decline in some of the costs such as vehicle repairs and maintenance, diesel costs and other
expenses were supported in increase in EBITDA margins. The diesel cost is under control in
spite of no bulk purchase from the refinery, and the cost per liter is less due to reduction of excise
duty by the government on periodical basis. The procurement cost of diesel, it was around Rs.
90 earlier, now in Q2 it is almost same of around Rs. 90 only.
The quarter-on-quarter decline in EBITDA is mainly on account of increase in lorry hire charges
as a percentage to the revenue. This cost is increased from 9.37% to 10.16%. The increase in
cost is mainly due to sudden surge in festive bookings during the fag end, of the current quarter
especially from Surat and Ahmedabad again, and further we were forced to engage outside
vehicle on account of this sudden surge in the demand.
Further the vehicle repair maintenance is increased on account of increase in spare part rates
during the quarter. And employee cost as a percentage to the revenue has been declined from
15% to 14.9%. On account of the increase in the volumes, since the employee costs is fixed in
nature, on account of surge in the revenue the percentage to the revenue has come down.
Moreover, if you see the fuel cost, which has declined from 31% to 30%, and this is mainly on
account of declined in the overall reduction in the procurement cost. In the Quarter 1, the
procurement cost of the fuel was around Rs. 93 which has been reduced to around Rs. 90 in Q2.
I would like to quote another impact in the current quarter on account of sudden increase in the
transit tonnage during the fag end of the quarter. Normally this freight amount is around Rs. 45
crores to Rs. 50 crores at the end of each quarter. But in this quarter this amount has increased
to around Rs. 65 crores. Since most of the tonnages are in transit, we have not accounted this
tonnage as a revenue in the current quarter, and further some of the expenses incurred on this
transit tonnage has been additionally burden on the P&L account. In our view, around 50 basis
points of margins have been reduced on account of this in the current quarter.
Page 4 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
The net profit of the Company reached to Rs. 31 crores in the current quarter and decline in net
profit from the run rate of Rs. 50 crores profit, from the previous quarters is only on account of
decrease in the performance of bus business.
If we see the EBIT of bus segment, which is around Rs. 17 crores, which has been reduced as
compared to the 1st Quarter. The 1st Quarter always we will see more demand and more
profitability whereas subsequent quarters, the margins of the bus business will come down.
Further as we presented earlier also, the bus business is facing lot of competitions especially
from the railways, and even from the regional air segment. So, on account of this overall there
is a reduction in the demand, our number of passengers have been traveled less in the Quarter 2,
and even realization per passenger has come down. On account of this the bus business is
impacted very badly in the current quarter.
Further, there is a reduction of profit in around Rs. 3 crores to Rs. 4 crores on account of the
windmill transactions. The windmill transactions as effective from 1st July 1, August and
September profitability have not been considered in the current quarter. Because of that the
profitability is reduced by around Rs. 4 crores to Rs. 5 crores in the current quarter. So, on
account of these two impacts, the overall profitability has come down, but in terms of Goods
Transportation business, it has maintained EBITDA and EBIT level profits.
Other things, just I want to highlight about the Goods Transport vehicles, we have purchased
around 560 vehicles in the current half year. And as we committed the CAPEX plan, we are on
track, and the rest of the vehicles are going to be added in the coming one-year period. By
September '23 definitely this order is going to be completed.
And another thing is about the net debt, which has increased from Rs. 130 crores to Rs. 164
crores in spite of increasing in the CAPEX to the tune of around Rs. 170 crores in the first half
of the year.
And as we disclosed the bus transaction is going to be consummated in the Quarter 3. And
because of these transactions, the Company is going to realize around Rs. 190 crores additional
cash flows, the net of taxes. And these entire cash flows are going to be used for retirement of
the debt. So, on account of this, there will be savings in the interest costs by almost Rs. 3 crores
to Rs. 4 crores in the quarter.
So, overall, on a future period, definitely we are expecting that the tonnage will grow in the
range of around 20% on a year-on-year basis. And further the profitability will be maintained at
a EBITDA level we are going to maintain at the range of around 16%. And at a PAT level, the
reduction on debt is going to be supportive for us to increase at a PAT margins.
With this I conclude my initial remarks. Now I request the participants to ask questions.
Page 5 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
Moderator:
Thank you very much. We will begin the question and answer session now. We have the first
question from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Amit Dixit:
I have two questions. The first one is that you mentioned in your opening remarks that there was
services provided due to the sudden surge in festive booking. However, the corresponding
revenue was not positive, is it possible to quantify that revenue. And will it come in 3rd quarter?
And if so, what could be your EBITDA margin for the rest of the year?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, in the normal period of operations or even in the normal festive seasons, which are spread
in months, this transit freight will be in the range of around Rs. 40 crores to Rs. 45 crores value.
But in this quarter what happened, this amount has been reached to around Rs. 65 crores.
Amit Dixit:
And this entire Rs. 65 crores has not been booked in this quarter.
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, this Rs. 65 crores the transit freight is not booked as a revenue in this quarter. And apart
from that, what happens, there are certain expenses which are incurred by the Company. Say for
example, if the material is booked from Delhi, the booking office expenses have been incurred,
the booking loading and unloading charges have incurred. If it reaches to the transshipment,
again transshipment costs have been incurred and all these expenses have been already charged
to the P&L account in the current year as period costs.
See in our estimate, if it would have been a normal transit tonnage, the profitability would have
been improved by around 50 basis points in the current quarter.
Amit Dixit:
The second question was essentially, if we look at the revenue growth in this quarter YoY it has
been mainly volume led there is no increase prices, and we have seen your costs increasing. So,
is there is any chance of passing the cost to the customer through price hikes.
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, basically, we are in expansion mode as of today. And we are more concentrated to increase
the volumes. Because of that reasons, we have not taken a call on the increase in the freight rate.
And since we are maintaining the EBITDA level at around 16%, we want to continue this
strategy even going forward.
If the increase in costs are beyond this level, say if a sudden increase in the fuel rate or something
like that which are beyond our control or which is going to impact on our EBITDA margins,
then we will think about the increase in the freight rate. Otherwise, we want to continue the same
strategy and we want to acquire more and more number of customers. And more and more
number of the sectors which were in the hands of the unorganized players till date.
Amit Dixit:
What is the threshold profitability level that you are considering beyond which you would
consider price hike?
Page 6 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, EBITDA margins, see our strategy is to maintain at around 16% and if it is below around
15% or so then definitely we will think about increasing the rate.
Moderator:
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Rakesh from HDFC Mutual Fund. Please
go ahead.
Rakesh:
I just wanted to probe a little bit more on the margins. If I look at your margins, and forgetting
about the first half of this year, you have been in the range of about 19%, as high as about 20%
to 21% in the goods segment margin for almost seven, eight quarters in the past. And now you
are talking about 16% margins. So, I am just wondering, like even with the higher volumes, why
shouldn't our margins be going back to the previous level. What explains the difference between
the 19% margin we were doing and versus 16% we are guiding now?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, basically what happened this 18%, 19% or even up to 20% EBITDA margins we reached
in the last year Quarter 2, Quarter 3 and Quarter 4. But subsequently, what happened the diesel
cost has been tremendously increased. But in spite of that actually we maintained over freight
rate. And apart from that there are increase in other expenses also. If you see the toll charges it
has increased by almost around 1% to 2% to the revenue, only on account of number of toll
plazas have been increased, the toll rates have been increased. And if you see the other costs, the
lorry hire cost has suddenly increased on account of the festive season. The employee costs have
been increased on account of the increment which has been affected from April 2022.
See that 19%, 20% which were there for three quarters, but it is not sustainable for going forward
or even for a longer period. And since our focus has been shifted more towards acquisition of
the new customers and new geography, new market, we want to grow on top-line with a
maintenance of EBITDA level at around 16%, that’s what the strategy has been fixed internally.
Rakesh:
Just wanted to follow up on this. Should we take that during those six, seven quarters to
competitive intensity because of the COVID was benign, and therefore you could charge higher
margins and now again the competitive intensity is higher, and to grow volumes, you need to
give up those margins. Is that the way to think about it? Or is there any other way to think about
it, because you might not be taking a price hike? Does it mean the customers will remain sticky
and you would have any opportunity to increase price hike in future as and when you get an
opportunity.
Sunil Nalavadi:
No, basically see since we are expanding in the new geography, we want to retain the price. And
moreover, once the volumes grows at the expected level say around 20% to 25%, definitely we
will have an operational leverage. And again, see around 1% or 2% margin expansion is possible
at that level. But it is going to take its own time, until we reach at least around one or two years
around 20% growth, that possibility we cannot see. And once continuously we grow at a range
of around say 20%, then going forward then we will have operational leverage at that level
around 1% or 2% increase in EBITDA margin is possible.
Page 7 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
Rakesh:
Are you undercutting prices relative to your competition, as and when you are expanding into
new geographies or you are at parity? I mean is there a large difference between your prices and
the competition prices, if you can help us understand that?
Sunil Nalavadi:
No basically in the new geography considering our service strength we are offering the
competitors rate to the customers.
Moderator:
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Dhaval Shah from Girik Capital. Please
go ahead.
Dhaval Shah:
Just continuing with the last participant. So, you mentioned in the new geography you are
offering competitive rate or the same rate to the competition, I didn't hear it, correctly.
Sunil Nalavadi:
The competitors rate, same rate of the competitors what they are offering.
Dhaval Shah:
So, now this, focusing on volume growth. So, in which geographies have you not taken the price
increase? And by doing that, how has your rate card versus the unorganized sector narrowed?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Our rates are not narrow than the unorganized players, especially in the compliance transactions.
See across the board, we have not taken any freight rate increase, either it may be new geography
or even in the existing geographies. Since our thought process is to increase the volumes. When
it comes to another player, as even earlier I used to say for the comply transactions, yes definitely
they will offer lesser than our rates, but when it comes to non-compliant transaction, they earn
much of a premium rate, there actually we cannot compete with them, and we will not do that
business.
Dhaval Shah:
Now on the volume growth, so compared to the last June quarter, we would have gone into our
newer geography where the distance traveled by the truck would be higher. So, average
realization for per tonnes per kilometer also would be higher, now, would that mean your
revenue growth should be higher than the volume growth? Is my understanding correct, should
that be the way to look at it?
Sunil Nalavadi:
No the realization per tonnes is a constant at around Rs. 6,700 per tonnes. The reason is again,
there is a growth in the existing market also. If you see the contribution from the new branches
or new geographies, which is around 8% of the tonnage, additional tonnage we got from the last
one year. But that itself will not change the overall realization rate. Since there is a tonnage
increase in the existing market also, the overall realization per tonnes, we are maintaining at
around Rs. 6,700.
Dhaval Shah:
And now about this debt on the book and so by when can we see this transaction getting done
and the debt on the books, repaying the entire debt.
Page 8 of 21
Sunil Nalavadi:
As I said the bus transaction is going to fetch around Rs. 190 crores net cash inflow to the
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
Company. And we are planning to consummate this transaction in the current quarter, the
Quarter 3 for this financial year. So, definitely once this amount came into the Company, then
again our financial position will be substantially improved. And apart from that, our focus will
be on the main on the Goods Transport segment.
And on the interest side, since we are going to repay this debt entirely. So, we are going to
become a debt free Company once this transaction has been completed. And apart from that
every quarter our savings will be in the range of around Rs. 3 crore to Rs. 4 crore. So, that will
directly add to our net profit.
Dhaval Shah:
So, in this quarter also you have this, in the interest component you have this IndAS adjustment
done, right.
Sunil Nalavadi:
No, that IndAS is going to continue, even post the bus transaction, but the debt is going to reduce
and whatever interest related to this debt is going to come down, it will be zero.
Dhaval Shah:
So, IndAS component out of Rs. 15 crore will be how much, Rs. 6 crores to Rs. 7 crores?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, out of Rs. 15 crores in a quarter, the IndAS component is around Rs. 10 crores, Rs. 10
crores to Rs. 11 crores.
Dhaval Shah:
So, your actually interest payout is Rs. 4 crores?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes.
Dhaval Shah:
And this is what saving you will have?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes.
Moderator:
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Mukesh Saraf from Spark Capital. Please
go ahead.
Mukesh Saraf:
On the presentation, you have mentioned about 8% of your total tonnage in the 2nd Quarter has
come from the new branch additions that you have done last year and first half this year. So, that
means, I mean organically, it's been a lower growth, I mean, 4%, 5% growth. But just trying to
understand, how much more can branch network, first of all expand? I think we have added
about 100 branches this year, first half. So, how are we looking at this branch expansion?
And secondly because of this new branch addition in newer geographies, how is that the lead
distances etc, may be higher and so, the realization per tonne etc. and how can that move, because
we have had a significantly higher exposure to the West and South, but now that you are
expanding, how will that change our business?
Page 9 of 21
Sunil Nalavadi:
See about the new branches, we are having a plan to open around 30 to 40 branches every quarter.
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
And this will continue at least for next two to three years. So, wherever potential areas are there,
definitely we are planning to open new branches and these are going to continue. And apart from
that, when it comes to realization per ton, yes, as we have said, since the lead distance is
increasing, but overall contribution it will be in the range of around 8% to 10%, the impact of
realization per ton will not be there.
And going forward see once the new branches will be in the range of around say 250, 300
branches, then definitely the lead distance will be substantial. And at that moment, definitely we
can see some improvement in the realization per ton.
Mukesh Saraf:
Okay, so you continue to expect on the 8% to 10% kind of volume growth because of this branch
expansion right now, it cannot be significantly higher?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, once the numbers further increase, and moreover, what will happen, since these branches
are opened very nearby near future, see what is happening, we have to spend some more time,
see at least these branches require around one or two years to give substantial growth in the
tonnage. Now what is happening, as a benchmark at least these branches have to contribute 100
tonnes per month and these branches to reach breakeven. And branches are contributing 100
tonnes within a period of around two to three months and reaching breakeven. To add to the
overall profitability and growth in the tonnage, at least those branches are required, at least
around two to three years. At that moment, there will be considerable jump in the tonnage
contribution from these new branches.
And just I want to tell you, even earlier, I used to say the new branches, they were, the
contribution were hardly around 2% and 5% in the earlier quarters. Now we reached to 8%. And
in the subsequent quarters again this percent is going to be increased.
Mukesh Saraf:
Secondly, in relation to these businesses going out will be buses, the bus business as well as the
power business, is that any possible reduction in the unallocable expenses, at the corporate level,
would there be some employees that would move out or maybe some rent etc, that could come
off, because we do have Rs. 8 crores to Rs. 9 crores of quarterly unallocable expenses. So, just
trying to understand, is there some slack that we could kind of --
Sunil Nalavadi:
Proportionately that expenses is going to come down even for a bus segment, see that
expenditure component is in the range of around 12% to 15%. To that extent, those expenses are
going to be reduced.
And moreover, since we are scrapping the vehicles, even on the new scrappage policy, whatever
it is going to effect from April '23, some of this realization of scrape we are going to go support
for margin expansion, especially this will be treated as these other income. And that may support
in margin expansion in the next year.
Page 10 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
Mukesh Saraf:
On the employee cost is there an expected increase in minimum wages by the Karnataka State
Government or say any other state that you are present in, because we are reading that there
could be a possibility of a very high kind of jump in the minimum wages there.
Sunil Nalavadi:
See currently when it comes to the minimum wages, anyway our employees are earning more
than the minimum wages. See currently the minimum wages is around Rs. 11,000 to Rs. 12,000
in different states, in Karnataka it is around Rs. 12,000 per month. But most of our drivers and
other people are earning more than this amount. Their average earning by the drivers is in the
range of around 20,000 plus salary or earnings per month. So, once the minimum wage is revised,
accordingly the salary structure of the drivers will be changed, but overall there will not be
impact on the Company. Only it’s allocation -- operational costs will change.
Moderator:
Thank you so much. We have the next question from the line of Vikram Suryavanshi from
PhillipCapital. Please go ahead.
Vikram Suryavanshi:
Basically, I just want outlook on this new of biodiesel which we used to have very actively
earlier. How is the current situation or outlook going ahead for the use of this biodiesel
opportunity?
And the second question is that, share this lorry hire at a percentage of sales, but can you view
the outside basis on the kilometer percentage like just to get an idea?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, one is about biofuel again in near future, we are not having the visibility of uses of biodiesel.
But in some of the location, we started in the current quarter, but it is very small quantity as of
now. And second thing about the fuel is, now entire fuel is consummating through the retail
pumps, even the bulk purchase is ruled out because of the wholesale prices increased by the
government. So, once these prices are going to be matched, and once these are going to get a
benefit to us, definitely we are the first people to start usage of the biodiesel.
And the second thing about the hires kilometers what you have said, just I will give that figure
to you. There is a cost increase of around 2% in the lorry hire charges per kilometer, on quarter-
on-quarter basis. If we see the cost per kilometer year-on-year it is increased by around 17%.
And on an overall basis, the kilometres the lorry hire charges we have incurred in the current
quarter is around Rs. 57 crores as compared to the earlier around Rs. 66 crores. And the number
of kilometers in the current quarter is around 56,91,000 kilometers which are contributed by
hired vehicle kilometers in the Quarter 1. And Quarter 2 that that has been increased to around
65,28,000 kilometers, whereas last year, the same kilometers were around 40,39,000 kilometers.
Moderator:
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Shrinidhi from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Shrinidhi:
First question on revenue growth outlook, more importantly, volume growth outlook as we go
into H2. I know you have guided for 20%. I just wanted to know, how has been the lower
Page 11 of 21
threshold for E-invoicing that is starting to kick in from 1st October, resulting into increased
inquiries for you?
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, definitely, there are, see we monitor based on the product price, just, I mentioned some of
the products which were completely in the hands of unorganized people, those products are
shifting to us. And in terms of number of customers, it is the group of people. The one coconut
product, one particular market, like that entire market is going to shift to us, that way, irrespective
of the number of customers based on the product wise, if it is there are a lot of inquiries and we
are doing, and there is substantial increase in the tonnage from this product. So, that's the reason
whatever government is going to take steps, now E-invoice is Rs. 20 crores to it is reduced to
Rs. 10 crores. And we are accepting that all GST registered people are going to regenerate a E-
invoice and that policy may come soon. So, once it happens, even the people are having a
turnover of around Rs. 40 lakh to Rs. 50 lakh turnover, they are liable to generate an E-invoice.
In that scenario, definitely it is going to support us a lot, being an organized player.
Shrinidhi:
And wondering is this incremental revenue growth that you are seeing, because of this
formalization, is it a similar margin business or it is coming at a lower margin?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, definitely it is a similar margin business. And because most of these retail rates, were fixed
by the Company. We do not have contract with these customers. They just always we use to
highlight about this paid and to pay customers. So, most of these customers comes under this
category, paid or to pay which is almost 70% of our business as of today. For these customers,
we do not have a contract, those customers have to follow the rate charge issued by the Company.
New customers in this category, obviously, they have to book as per the Company's rate card.
Shrinidhi:
And coming back to the margin guidance which you said that is, we are expecting about 16%
kind of margin. If you look at this quarter margin, you did almost 16% margin and this quarter
had a several one-off kind of things. So, wondering if those one-offs kind of normalization,
shouldn't you margin go back to 17% to 18% kind of level as we go into second half?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Well there is a possibility of around change of around 1% or so, because these lorry hire charges
is going to come down, and even the transit tonnage what we are talking that may benefit in the
next quarter but substantial around 18% of what we are talking, definitely it is going to take a
time. So, once our strategy of volume increase, just continuously increase around 20% in next
two to three years, post to that definitely we can look margins in the range of around 18%.
Shrinidhi:
And last one, a bookkeeping question. Would it be possible to tell us how much was the total
tonnage you did in full financial year last year?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, last year, I said half yearly we did the --
Shrinidhi:
Like full year, sir, I wanted.
Page 12 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
Sunil Nalavadi:
Full year, I will share with you separately, okay. Half year information is available as of today.
Shrinidhi:
Yes, 18 lakh something you said, right.
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, 18,58,000 tonnes, and full year basis we did around 32 lakhs tones. Anyway, I will share
you separately on that, okay.
Moderator:
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Vikash Khatri from Aviral Consulting.
Please go ahead.
Vikash Khatri:
So, my question is the kilometer of running, you have given last year 40 lakh kilometer to this
year 66 lakh kilometer, increase of almost 65%. Is it due to having any relation with the
retirement of your own fleet that market engagement has increased that’s why your lorry cost is
going up. And if so, then what's the outlook in the coming days, in terms of old vehicle retirement
versus lorry hire?
And the second question is that you are adding new segments like you gave coconut, leather,
supari what the impact on the top four contributing categories of the volume like, we are really
known for the cloth. So, how that is moving up and how it will be in coming days?
And the third question is related to your existing wind business. So, are there any plans to enter
in related business like Rail Freight?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, just to answer about the lorry kilometers, the kilometres have been increased mainly on
account of a sudden surge in the volumes especially in Surat, Ahmedabad and some of the
locations in Punjab, Ambala and other places. But this is a one-off increase in the kilometers,
and going forward definitely it will not be this kind of a percentage. Overall, it will be in the
range of around 7% to 8%, not in the range of around 10% to 11% in terms of kilometers. That's
one thing. And second thing --
Vikash Khatri:
its owned vehicle versus outsourced vehicle ratio.
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes.
Vikash Khatri:
Okay.
Sunil Nalavadi:
So, your second question is related to the wind power project. The wind power project, yes, it is
a one-time investment we did long back in the Financial Year 2006/2007 only for the tax
planning purpose. And since we got to the complete benefit on the tax side, and even on the
return on this project so we got a good offer and we sold that project. And in the near future, we
are not looking for any such kind of investment. And our focus will be only on the Goods
Transport business going forward.
Page 13 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
When it comes to product wise yes the cloth that we are doing around 18% to 19% of the overall
tonnage, and agriculture commodity is in the range of around 7% to 8%. And when it comes to
the food and FMCG product, we are doing around 9%. And the electronic goods we are doing
around 7%, and the metal hardware are in the range of 8%. So, the major commodities are the
cloth, and rest of all in the range of around 6% to 8%, to the overall tonnage contribution. So,
we are not depending on any particular sector. And even if we see the customer base, we are
having a 7 lakh plus customers, and the top customer contribution even if not more than 1% to
the revenue. That's how the spread, in terms of the customers or even in terms of the product.
Moderator:
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Sanjay Satpathy from Ampersand Capital.
Please go ahead.
Sanjay Satpathy:
My question is that you are trying to gain market share through bit up aggressive pricing strategy.
So, is that something which is going to be negative for you in the long term because you may
like to get into parcel business or something?
Sunil Nalavadi:
No, ours is a healthy growth, if we see many people are trying to, by heavy losses they are
incurring and growing in the market. But our strategy is totally different. We want to earn a
minimum operating margin and grow. So, our growth what we are seeing it is completely healthy
growth. It is not at all risk for us.
Sanjay Satpathy:
And my last question is that promoters are going to buy out this bus business. So, how are they
going to fund that acquisition I mean because there are some speculation that they will sell, VRL
shares in the open market to raise funds?
Sunil Nalavadi:
They are planning internally among the promoters. And definitely, it is their plan, we don't want
to comment on that.
Sanjay SatpathY:
But when all these transactions likely to get over the whole uncertainty will go away, is there
any idea?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes in Quarter 3, we want to complete this transaction, because we received a shareholder
approval by 30th October. And definitely we are going to complete this transaction by the end of
this quarter.
Moderator:
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Ash Shah from Elara Capital. Please go
ahead.
Ash Shah:
I just wanted to confirm one thing, earlier you mentioned that 75% of the customers are to pay
customers, right, if I am not mistaken?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, paid and to pay customers.
Ash Shah:
And 25% would be contract business.
Page 14 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes.
Ash Shah:
And also one more thing, so since the bus segment is going to be carved out into a new entity.
So, the management bandwidth will be divided between the two. So, how are we planning to
deal with the situation if there is any?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, even currently see that bus business is completely running by the independent professional
management. There is a technical team, who were running independently. And apart from that
the operational person is from the inception of the bus segment. Actually, he is leading that
business and that person is going to continue as Head of this operation. And about the
management role, especially on the policy matters definitely, even currently their involvement
is there even with this Company, since that segment is running. And going forward also whatever
policy level decisions or policy level qualifications are required, definitely, there will be
involvement. But on a day-to-day operations level, there is an independent team who are going
to handle it. And currently, that's how the structure is and even going forward that’s how the
structure is going to continue.
Moderator:
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Suraj Nawandhar from Sampada
Investment. Please go ahead.
Suraj Nawandhar:
We have placed, two to three quarters ago we had placed a big order with Ashok Leyland and
Tata Motors around 1400 or 1600 trucks please correct again. So, what is the timeline to receive
all those trucks?
Sunil Nalavadi:
As we informed earlier, this order is going to complete by September 2023. And we are on track.
So, by September '23, all these vehicles will be purchased.
Suraj Nawandhar:
So, is it going to be step wise delivery like every month you will received 50 or 100 trucks or
anything like that or there are going to give us everything at one-go.
Sunil Nalavadi:
No, see currently in the Quarter 1, Quarter 2, we added substantially good number, almost around
600 vehicles in the first half year. This kind of acquisition is going to continue, another 600
vehicles are going to be added in next half year. So, by that time around 1200 vehicles will be
added. And another 400 vehicles will remain that will be added by September '23.
Suraj Nawandhar:
So, can we expect this lorry hire charges to go down substantially in next six to eight months.
Once we receive the delivery of all the trucks.
Sunil Nalavadi:
Since we are going on a volume side also, the substantial reduction will not be there, but at least
there will be reduction of around the 2% to 3% on overall kilometers.
Suraj Nawandhar:
And if I heard you correctly, textiles contributes the largest percentage share in volume till today,
right.
Page 15 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, it’s around the 18% to 19% of our volumes are coming from textile.
Suraj Nawandhar:
So, how is the slowdown in textile is affecting us, because we are seeing a really bad business
in global demand from many companies. So, how is it affecting us?
Sunil Nalavadi:
No earlier, if you see the textile was contributed around 14% to 15% to the volume, now that the
contribution is increased to around 18% to 19%. The reason is earlier as we mentioned we were
not having a proper infrastructure facility at Surat, and we were not having proper branch and
network in the untapped market. Now, what is happening from the last two years except this
COVID impact, we are having a proper infrastructure at Surat so that we can book the cloth
material from Surat to across India. Earlier we used to do only from Surat to serve
predominantly, now that has been expanded from Surat to South, Surat to East, even Surat to
North, that's how the contribution from the overall textile is increasing. So, we are not depending
on a few customers who are there which is going to impact on our total volumes, we are
depending on the total market. And a lot of new customers have been added in this segment.
Suraj Nawandhar:
And have you seen any number, like an upward cash, like let's say 25% of our volumes, let's say
textile hits 25% of our volume. So, you will stop taking any more volume from textile, because
then our dependence on the one sector will increase. So, have you put any cap on any particular
sector?
Sunil Nalavadi:
No, we do not have any cap or any minimum requirement of each segment. See when it goes to
our branches, we handle all kinds of commodities, except some hazardous and liquid product we
are handling all commodities, that's why we are not depending on any sector, and if you see the
next sector wise contribution the maximum which is in the range of around 6% to 8%. That's
how it is widely spread. We are not depending on any customer. We are not depending on any
particular product. So, our volumes are spread across the industry and spread across the
customers, even in slowdown on some of the products are not going to impact on our overall
volumes.
Moderator:
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Krupashankar NJ from Spark Capital
Advisors. Please go ahead.
Krupashankar NJ:
I had a question relating to a branch addition, if I am not mistaken, you said, 30 to 50 branches
is added per quarter. So, are you seeing that these branches will get added more in geographies
where your vehicle goes typically, like for example, last year, you had around 45% of your new
branches in the northern and the eastern region. So, is there a focus on expanding more branch
center there? Or would we again focus on South and West where we are relatively stronger.
Sunil Nalavadi:
No more focus is on Eastern and North Market and even the Northeast market so most of our
new branches will be added in those areas. See South and the Western permit wherever
requirement is there only in those locations we are going to add a branch, but the expansion
model what we are talking that is only in the Eastern, North and Northeast geography.
Page 16 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
Krupashankar NJ:
So, the point that I was making earlier that around 100 tonnes per month is required for
breakeven is achieved even in these geographies, is my understanding correct.
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes this 100 tonnes per month requirement is for each and every new branch irrespective of the
geography.
Krupashankar NJ:
No, what I meant was just taking on two to three months to breakeven is that the case with new
branches opened in North and East as well right now.
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, new branches where we are opening, these branches are taking around two to three months
to reach 100 tonnes and by that time they reach breakeven. Whatever expenditure incurred over
one or two months definitely it is burden on the P&L. And growth wise profitability contribution
and growth in the turnover will be more visualized after one and one and a half year. That time
actually the real contribution from these branches the profitability contribution will be emerged.
Krupashankar NJ:
And a related question. So, what I can see in your balance sheet is that the lease liability
proportion has gone up quite substantially. That's primarily only because of branch addition or
is there any hubs also which we have renewed means that relative higher costs, which is translate
into these higher.
Sunil Nalavadi:
No along with the branch expansion we said that even space expansion is required in some of
the key transshipment hubs. So, that's how actually we carried out in the last six months. And
for all this actually we have entered into new lease agreements. So, because of that, the fees
please liability has increased.
Krupashankar NJ:
Well, how many hubs have you changed this year?
Sunil Nalavadi:
In around 10 to 12 locations in a major area we have changed, but even at a small scale like if
you see, almost around, it is a continuous process. And the major changes happened in around
50 to 60 locations in the first half of the year. Basically, to name some of the places like Pune,
Ahmedabad, Raipur, Salem, Chennai, Kanpur, Delhi, Kolkata, Patna, Guwahati, Siliguri,
Cuttack in all these places we have enhanced our space. And lot of volumes are coming in those
areas.
And one more thing, just I want to mention about space expansion, always we will have a vision
that even after three to four years, they should not be change in the space. If there is a requirement
of 50,000 square feet, we initially go for one lakh square feet, if requirement is one lakh square
feet then we go for around 150,000 square feet. We always keep a vision that in next four to five
years also this space should not be changed, because of that reason, initially the utilization rate
will be around 50% to 60%, gradually the utilization will increase around 70% to 80%. So,
because of this reason also there will be some burden of expenses in the P&L.
Krupashankar NJ:
Now all this benefit of operating leverage will be reflected after a year or two when –
Page 17 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
Sunil Nalavadi:
Definitely a year, year and half year then definitely the clear visibility come and definitely the
margin expansion is possible.
Moderator:
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Alok Deshpande from Edelweiss
Securities. Please go ahead.
Alok Deshpande:
You mentioned about the timeline of this new fleet addition that is going to come. You added
about 500 so far in H1, another 500 to 600 in the second half of this year. So, as this addition
happens, do you see a possibility till you are sort of settled down with all these new additions
that there can be some case of underutilization of capacity, until probably the second half of next
year? Or do you think that utilizations are up and running even for some of these new additions?
Sunil Nalavadi:
See the vehicle addition is always based on our requirements, from the date of registration itself,
these vehicles are going to be utilized. So, to that extent the depending on the outside vehicle
will come down and there will be utilization of the owned vehicles. Always the utilization will
be maintained even for the new vehicles.
Alok Deshpande:
Second question on the sale of the bus operation business. Now, given or assuming the stability
completed this quarter. So, should one assume that starting Q4 of this year that segment will not
reflect in book of accounts or will that be next year?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, once this transaction is consummated in this quarter, then from Q4 onwards those numbers
will not be there. It will be a discontinued business.
And similarly if you see the wind power project now, so, this project has been, the effective date
was around 1st August. The August and September revenue and profitability have not been
accounted in the current quarter. The similar numbers will appear in the next quarter now the
Q4.
Moderator:
Thank you. We have a next follow up question from the line of Dhaval Shah from Girik Capital.
Please go ahead.
Dhaval Shah:
Now, given we are expanding so, aggressively, will there be higher increase in the employ cost,
in terms of more incentives, you will need more manpower, because we are also expanding,
might be recruiting more senior people, because the expansion is happening at the rate which we
have not seen in the past. So, will there be a substantive change in the employee count, the kind
of employees we have, the employee mix?
Sunil Nalavadi:
See as and when we increase the number of branches definitely the number of employees are
going to be increased. And we are doing internal promotion to the people, giving promotion to
the people who are going to handle these new geographies. See, we have sent some of the expert
people who are already in the Company, who are very loyal to the Company to these new
geographies, with all these promotions. To that extent definitely the absolute amount of the
Page 18 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
salary is going to increase, but since the volume growth are better and growing at around 14%,
15% even 20% the percentage of salary our employee cost percentage to the revenue will come
down, but in absolute terms yes, definitely there is some incremental cost will be there.
Dhaval Shah:
So, our employee costs have been around, say I mean, if you just, this run rate of the current
quarter will be R. 430 crores to Rs. 440 crores, Rs. 430 crores around now this absolute number
will grow at what rate over the next three-year period?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Now if you see in the 1st Quarter now, we were Rs. 106 crores in 1st Quarter, 2nd Quarter Rs. 111
crores.
Dhaval Shah:
So, it was around Rs. 106 crores, now in 2nd Quarter it is, similar, some around Rs. 4 to Rs. 5
crores incremental cost will be there every quarter.
Sunil Nalavadi:
Every quarter Rs. 4 crores okay. So, for the next two years every quarter on quarter you will see
additional employee cost is what you mean?
Dhaval Shah:
Yes, in the normal scenario unless we do the implemental at a board level to all employees. But
then increment will come right. Incremental is a part of --
Sunil Nalavadi:
I meant that it is not an immediate thought process, because we have already did it in April ’22,
that is not the immediate thought process, but till that time, definitely around the Rs. 4 to Rs. 5
crores on every quarter it is going to increase, because one is the new branches will be there we
are appointing the new people. And we need a lot of new supportive stock also. And a lot of
these internal implements to the people who are shifting to the new geographies, all these
references are continuous exercises we are doing. And the more focus is only to establish these
branches and stabilize these branches and increase the volume that is what the strategy is.
Dhaval Shah:
And this unallocable income and expense, how will that be after the sale of the bus transaction?
Sunil Nalavadi:
There will not be any unallocable that entire expenses will be treated as only goods transport
segment expenses. And moreover, some of the expenses are going to shift to even bus operations.
So, on a net basis these unallocable around Rs. 4 crores to Rs. 5 crores expenses are going to be
treated as GT segment expenses.
Dhaval Shah:
And the rest will go off.
Sunil Nalavadi:
Rest will go off. And even we have to adjust unallocable expenses unallocable revenue also
right.
Dhaval Shah:
Yes. So, revenue how will that be?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Means after adjusting all revenue and expenses around Rs. 4 crores to Rs. 5 crores additional
expenses will be unallocable expenses that will be treated as the GT expenses.
Page 19 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
Dhaval Shah:
How have is the gross debt right now on books and cash?
Sunil Nalavadi:
The cash is around Rs. 11 crores to Rs. 12 crores. And debt will continue as it is.
Dhaval Shah:
So, debt it Rs. 169 crores, okay. So, by 31st March given that if the transaction happens as
expected then you will be net cash Company, debt will be zero?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, we are expecting that and we have to see the CAPEX also. But anyway the internal accruals
are going to support further and this fund is completely utilized for the repayment of debt again,
there will be savings on the interest. The balance is still more stronger and even on a leverage
side the Company will become debt free Company.
Dhaval Shah:
So, how much CAPEX is due for Q3, Q4 of this year?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Average around Rs. 80 to Rs. 85 crores CAPEX will be there, that’s how it is even there in the
Q1 and Q2 that will continue. And substantial it is for the vehicle addition, the goods transport
vehicle addition.
Dhaval Shah:
And the same figure, same Rs. 160 crores to Rs. 170 crores you will be spending next year,
FY24?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes, next half year, because Rs. 170 crores has been already invested in first half year now. So,
there will be similar investments in next six months till March ‘23. And again, further, there will
be similar investments till September ’23 on a half yearly basis. Post that again, we analyze how
the requirement of the vehicles and all, again, we will derive our CAPEX plan.
Moderator:
We move on to the next participant. And the question is from the line of Shrinidhi from HSBC.
This is a follow up question. Please go ahead.
Shrinidhi:
Just wondering is the growth from corporate client is higher than your overall growth for last
two quarters? And is the profitability in corporate clients significantly lower than your overall
profitability?
Sunil Nalavadi:
Proportionate growth will be there; this contribution will be there in around 20% to 25% even
going forward. See wherever we are entering into new geography and even products what I have
mentioned these are all, the paid and to pay customers.
Shrinidhi:
And how is profitability in corporate customer lower than your overall profitability?
Sunil Nalavadi:
See it is again similar profitability because the corporate client is assured business and we can
plan it properly. And moreover, some of the legal escalation clauses are there in the corporate
clients agreement. So, price are continuously revising in the corporate client, but that is not the
case in paid and to pay customers. So, on an overall basis even margin side, it will be similar
margin in accounts customer as well as paid and to pay.
Page 20 of 21
VRL Logistics Limited November 11, 2022
Moderator:
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Alok Deora from Motilal Oswal Financial
Services. Please go ahead sir.
Alok Deora:
Just want to understand so as this Capex progress, how much would be the lorry hire percentage
now going forward as a percentage of the total requirement, because the CAPEX we have done
in 1H also and now it's progressing at Rs. 80 crores to Rs. 85 crores per quarter so –
Sunil Nalavadi:
Yes around 6% to 7% kilometers we have to do with the outside vehicle. The reason is in some
of the routes, there will be not be return load. And some of the local from hub to spoke actually
were engaging the hired vehicles, those scenarios will continue, so overall basis it will be in the
range of around 6% to 7% of the total kilometers from the outside vehicles. And there will be
sudden demand on account of some of the festivals and all to meet that one-sided demand
actually, we have to engage outside vehicles only.
Moderator:
Thank you. Sir, we do not have anybody in the queue.
Sunil Nalavadi:
Just I would wish to again give a closing comments. The Management is highly focusing on the
good transport segment. And there will be lot of expansion in this segment going forward. Our
focus is more on a volume growth. And once volume growths are happening at the expected
level, definitely we can maintain EBITDA margins. And currently our expected EBITDA
margin is around 16% or so, and this may improve around 50 basis point or up to 100 basis
points in the next quarter on account of some of the key increase in the expenses in the Quarter
2, especially on lorry charges, or even on the front of the non-recognition of some of the revenues
and incurring of expenses on unrecognized revenues.
So, going forward, our focus will be more on the volumes and branch expansion and only on the
goods transport segment. Since we are having a proper infrastructure backup, we will not face
any threat of scarcity of the vehicles or other parameters in the industry. And apart from that,
since our customer base is widely spread, we are not depending on any product, even the
slowdown in the economy or recession, if we are expecting definitely that is not going to impact
directly on the Company.
So, definitely we are more focusing on the healthy growth, not just incur the losses and grow the
business. We are growing healthy. That's what actually I want to give as closing remarks.
Moderator:
Thank you. On behalf of Motilal Oswal Financial Services that concludes this conference. Thank
you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.
Page 21 of 21