Sheela Foam Limited has informed the Exchange about Transcript of Analysts/Institutional Investor Meet/Con. Call
Date:11th November 2022
To
The BSE Limited The National Stock Exchange India Limited Phiroze Jeejeebhoy Towers Exchange Plaza, Bandra Kurla Complex Dalal Street, Mumbai-400001 Bandra(E), Mumbai-400051 Scrip Code: 540203 NSE Symbol: SFL
Subject: Transcript of Investors’ Conference Call for Sheela Foam Limited-Q2 FY 2022-23 Financial Results.
Dear Sir/Madam,
Please find below the transcript of Investors’ conference call organized on November 08, 2022 post declaration of Financial Results for quarter and half year ended 30th September 2022 for your information and records.
Thanking you.
Yours faithfully, For Sheela Foam Limited
(Md. Iquebal Ahmad) Company Secretary and Compliance Officer
SHEELA FOAM LTD.
#14, Sleepwell Tower , Sector 135, Noida- 201301 Ph: Int-91(0)-120-4162200 • Fax: Int-91-(0)-120-4162282, 4162283 • Email: contactus@sheelafoam.com
Regd. Office: 604 Ashadeep, 9 Hailey Road, New Delhi-110001, India • Ph: Int-91(0)-11-22026875-76 Toll Free: 1800 103 6664 • www.sleepwellproducts.com • www.sheelafoam.com CIN-L74899DL1971PLC005679
“Sheela Foam Limited
Q2 FY 23 Earnings Conference Call”
November 08, 2022
MANAGEMENT: MR. RAHUL GAUTAM – MANAGING DIRECTOR –
SHEELA FOAM LIMITED MR. RAKESH CHAHAR – WHOLE TIME DIRECTOR – SHEELA FOAM LIMITED MR. TUSHAAR GAUTAM – WHOLE TIME DIRECTOR AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER – INDIA BUSINESS – SHEELA FOAM LIMITED MR. DAVINDER AHUJA – GROUP FINANCE CONTROLLER – SHEELA FOAM LIMITED
MODERATOR: MR. KARAN BHUWANIA – ICICI SECURITIES
Moderator:
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q2 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call of
Sheela Foam Limited hosted by ICICI Securities. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in
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Sheela Foam Limited November 08, 2022
the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the
presentation concludes. Should you need assistance, during the conference call, please signal an
operator by pressing star and then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference
is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Karan Bhuwania from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and
over to you, sir.
Karan Bhuwania:
Good evening, everyone. It's our pleasure at ICICI to host Sheela Foam's earnings conference
call. From the management today, we have Mr. Rahul Gautam, Managing Director; Mr. Rakesh
Chahar, Whole-Time Director; Mr. Tushaar Gautam, Whole-Time Director and CEO of India
Business; Mr. Nikhil Datye, Group Chief Financial Officer and Mr. Davinder Ahuja, Group
Finance Controller.
I'll now hand over the call to Mr. Rahul Gautam for his opening remarks. Thank you. Over to
you, sir.
Rahul Gautam:
Thank you, Karan. Thank you, thanks a lot. As usual, we will begin with our vision statement.
Our vision, we will continue to be recognized as a leading organization in quality comfort
products while practicing values of integrity, reliability, proactivity and transparency to do
business with a smile for customer delight and their commitment to society. Thank you, thank
you very much.
So thank you, Karan, once again for hosting this call on behalf of ICICI Securities, and a very
good afternoon to everyone joining us today and wish you all a very happy Gurpurab. It is my
pleasure to welcome you all to the earnings conference call for the second quarter and first half
of the financial year 2023.
I just wanted to say something upfront as far as participation is concerned. So Mr. Nikhil Datye
is today unwell and is not able to attend the conference. However, at the same time, I also want
to add that he was originally from Mumbai, but he's the process of transferring and changing,
and there were personal difficulties in getting admission for children, etcetera. So he is unable
to continue with Sheela Foam. And with effect from early part of December, we will then put
the process on to get a replacement.
Let me first take you through the quarterly and half yearly financial highlights and then discuss
some of the operational and industry highlights. For the second quarter under review, on a
consolidated basis, we reported a revenue of high INR 722 crores, which were down by about
8% on a year-on-year basis and about 1% on a quarter-to-quarter basis. EBITDA margins for
the quarter were reported at 10.84% which was an improvement versus previous quarter but still
down against the same period in the previous financial year. Net profit stood at INR 54 crores,
which was down by about 30% or so on a quarter-to-quarter basis.
First, to talk about the raw material scenario. Both are basic chemicals, which is polyol and TDI
have been experiencing a little bit of a downward trend. Polyol prices continued their consistent
movement downwards, while TDI prices also cooled off and then have been fluctuating thereof.
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Sheela Foam Limited November 08, 2022
This has definitely resulted in an improvement in the gross margins across various geographies
that we update on.
Uncertainty still looms large, though clear indications of the volatility settling down are on the
horizon. The year-on-year decline in revenues were primarily due to softer demand in our India
and European business, while Australia continued to perform well. For India, we have registered
a growth of 15% in the H1. And Australia, as I said, has been doing well, while Spain whatever
has been happening in the European continent due to the Ukrainian war has been experiencing
a downward consumption and therefore, a downward production.
In India, the revival in consumption patterns is slow due to the inflationary pressures seen across
consumer durable companies. The global economies do continue to face headwinds due to
certain geopolitical situations and high inflation. The rising interest rates across the globe to
fight inflationary pressures are weighing in on the economic activities and consumption patterns.
Similar to last quarter, the auto industry continued to do well for us in India, resulting in good
volume and revenue growth in our technical foam products on a year-on-year basis and quarter-
on-quarter basis.
Although this quarter, the mattress segment, furniture foam products and comfort foam products
witnessed some decline year-on-year on basis. Decline in consolidated EBITDA margins are
primarily due to the increase in sales and marketing expenses by 37% year-on-year and 24%
quarter-on-quarter.
For the first half of the financial year 2023, consolidated revenues stood at INR 1,451 crores,
reflecting a growth of 9% with EBITDA margins at 9.94% and a net profit of INR 96 crores.
I must share with you that in our recently concluded Board meeting, just a few hours back, the
Board has approved a 1:1 bonus on the existing shares. So I think this should bring some shares
to the investor community. Also, the Board discussed in detail the dividend policy, which will
be -- which is being fine-tuned, and we will be ready as and when the time comes.
In conclusion, despite the macro challenges, we believe that the inflationary environment is
slowly cooling off. And with our revised efforts in sales and marketing and the extra
expenditures that we have done there we believe that the financial revival is around the corner.
We can now open the floor for the question-and-answer session. Thank you very much. Over to
you, Karan.
Moderator:
Thank you very much. The first question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please
go ahead.
Ritesh Shah:
A couple of questions. First on cash flow, second on manufacturing and third, more to do with
the revenues, fees that we are looking at. So first on M&A or cash flow, I think prior to
conference call, so we had indicated that could be looking at a few acquisitions on the timeline,
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Sheela Foam Limited November 08, 2022
which was cited was October end. If you could provide some color over there on what we could
be looking at, any numbers that would help. That's the first question.
The second question is on third-party manufacturing. I understand that we have started this at a
top of places in India. If you could please highlight the rationale behind this? What is the product
-- so I think I understand Starlite is one of the products, which will be under third-party
manufacturing. So more of rationale and some numbers over here. That's the second question.
And the third question is into four parts. So one is exports hasn't really come out from the
Nandigram facility. I think [inaudible 0:09:30] problem of most of it, that seems to be pulling
off. Any numbers over here will be useful.
Second is any feedback on the e-commerce side. Last quarter, you indicated that we have
launched Sleepwell, how is it effective if adding in the marketplace. So that's the second part of
the third question.
Third is, Indian railways, any numbers over here, any updates and fourth is timelines on Jabalpur
expansion along the launch for our mattress for every Indian?
Rahul Gautam:
That's a lot of questions. So let me first begin with the first question that you have asked
regarding acquisitions. You see we don't do this day in and day out. And what we are
experiencing that these things always take a little longer time than what you think they should
when you especially go down and for details. I would only say that a couple of them is -- have
progressed well. They are close to the final run. However, giving any more details on that will
be a little out of place at this point of time. On the third-party manufacturing, I presume that you
are talking about outsourcing manufacturing of Starlite. Is that correct?
Ritesh Shah:
That's right.
Rahul Gautam:
So we are doing that on a standard basis. And I think there are two units who do that for us. And
the products, however, are completed there, and they come to our place for the final quality
inspection and then we are going ahead with that. However, let me just say that we continue to
have some flexibility on that in the sense that if the markets are down and or the volumetric
productions are less, then we do that more of that in-house and lesser from outside. So there is
flexibility on it. There was a question on the Indian railways. So...
Ritesh Shah:
Sorry to interrupt. Sir, can I just ask you for the rationale for this particular outsourcing or third-
party manufacturing. Is it purely lead time? Or is that we are looking to improve the ROCE,
working capital? How should one understand it, sir?
Rakesh Chahar:
I'll take that. I think the rationale for that is very simple. It's a very low value item. We are
anyway sourcing bulk of the core and fabric materials for that. Whenever we have capacity
constraints in Nagole facility, it makes sense to outsource it as a finished product and bring it
into our warehouses and then distribute onwards rather than putting up any fresh capital
investment and things like that for a product like this. But like Rahul ji said, during the year with
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seasonality, it's volume of outsourcing moves up and down depending on how much free
capacity we have ourselves.
Sheela Foam Limited November 08, 2022
Rahul Gautam:
Okay. So before I let Rakesh take the railways question, I just want to update you on the Jabalpur
project that is a mattress for every Indian. Last time and even the time before that, I had shared
with you that there was some delay in the supply of equipment from England on account of steel,
etcetera, which was actually available only from a Ukrainian plant. However, all that has been
kind of sorted out. And the machine is on its production. We should begin to receiving parts of
it by the end of this year. And I am sure that by the -- in the first half of next year or the middle
of next year is when the production will start.
The civil facilities and the infrastructures are all complete and some of the ancillary equipment,
etcetera, is already in place or getting in place. We are looking at possibilities where we can
manufacture before the machine arrives. If we can manufacture some small quantities of the
grade and the quality that we want, so that the project can probably start a bit earlier. And while
being on that project may add that the front-end work is also in full swing, which is the products,
the markets, the way of distribution, etcetera.
Now just I request Rakesh to update us on the railways a bit, please.
Rakesh Chahar:
So railways is progressing well. The material has got very well established now. So whatever
kind of opposition specifications, so the existing material lobby, so that all seem to kind of
getting settled down. And so we are now getting to a good run rate monthly, and it's progressing
well.
Ritesh Shah:
So wouldn't it be possible for you to give some numbers or some titling into what all regional
divisions that we're already supplying to, what's the opportunity size?
Rakesh Chahar:
So we are supplying to seat and board manufacturers who in turn supply to the coach factory.
So the current run rate is close to -- we started doing about 200 coaches or 250 coaches a month,
which is growing month-by-month. In terms of revenue, it will be about INR 4 crores to INR 5
crores a month, that's our current run rate that we are doing.
Ritesh Shah:
And sir, two more questions pending. One was on exports. And secondly was on e-commerce,
feedback on Sleepwell.
Rahul Gautam:
Tushaar, do you want to take one on the export?
Tushaar Gautam:
Yes. So Ritesh, the export side is like we discussed last time, was primarily struggling on account
of extremely high freight charges from India. Those have eased off in the last quarter. They have
normalized. The other thing that's normalized is, because of the slowdown in the US market,
sort of our customers had stuck inventories, which they had already imported. All of that's kind
of eased off. And from first week of October or so, we are starting to see our existing customers
buy more and more, and those orders have started coming in. So this quarter should be a good
quarter for exports. And that ramp-up that we had planned for should actually start to accelerate
now.
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Sheela Foam Limited November 08, 2022
Rahul Gautam:
And Rakesh can you just respond to the e-com position, please?
Rakesh Chahar:
So Sleepwell is introduced on the both the platforms, Amazon and Flipkart in late September.
So the response in October was very encouraging both on the marketplace and also on our
website. So now we are ramping that up, and we also will be running our campaign for promotion
of the three SKU that we've introduced. And this is actually an omnichannel. I mean these
projects are -- can also be booked from the offline channel. So I think it is settling down, but the
initial response has been quite encouraging at the price point that we have positioned it.
Moderator:
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nihal Jham from Nuvama. Please go ahead.
Nihal Jham:
Sir, couple of questions from my side. First, you did highlight that the current environment
remains a little impacted, specifically on the mattress side, but if I were to just ask you that at
least the activity from a lot of the other D2C brands in the mattress space has started getting very
aggressive. Would you believe that there could be any impact from that specifically happening
and that also being added to you in -- to the overall consumer sentiment?
Rahul Gautam:
Nihal, I'm just going to repeat the question so that I have understood well. You are referring the
competition activity in the market, which is heightened at this time. And the question is that is
it going to make any big impact as far as Sheela Foam is concerned. Is that correct?
Nihal Jham:
Yes. And I was specifically referring to a lot of the direct-to-consumer mattress brands that have
come up over the last three years, I would assume at least four or five of them. So is that a bigger
reason than maybe the overall slowdown would just say, impacting the performance across the
offline mattress industry? Not just say specifically to Sleepwell, Starlite or Sheela Foam?
Rahul Gautam:
Rakesh, why don't you take this?
Rakesh Chahar:
Yes. So I think you're referring to the e-comm brands which have been aggressive. So yes, it has
an impact on offline in two ways. One is, there is a consumer who is now looking at the price at
the offering and he is also looking at the same kind of bargain in the offline, which is not easy
to get because dealer also has to make his money. So that is one disruption which does impact
the offline.
And second is, I think it's -- because it's still a small market growing at a faster rate than offline,
about 25%, 30%. So but it is still in the realm of 1,200 about maybe 6%, 7% of the total market.
So I would say that, yes, it is an upcoming channel, which is getting evolved. But the impact on
offline is more a new channel, having its own ways of servicing customers, offers, COD, 100
free nights. So those are the things which the retailers are not kind of equipped to handle, but
the brands are, I mean, more-and-more brands are kind of working with the retailers to bridge
that gap. So, but I would not attribute it only to the e-comm, I think it is more to do with the
environment with the consumer sentiment.
Rahul Gautam:
And Rakesh, if I may add to this, that all this heightened activity that is there, to my mind, it's
only expanding the organized mattress market, which derives its source from the unorganized
sector, which is an extremely large sector. Therefore, my take on this is that all this activity is
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Sheela Foam Limited November 08, 2022
helpful. And the other little comment that I would want to say because we are also present
strongly in the e-commerce market. That e-commerce business, as it stands today, it's not a very
profitable business here. I mean eventually, people will have to figure out ways to exist there.
That is by margins or reducing discounts, etcetera. But otherwise, it's not a sustainable business.
So just these two points. One, or whatever activity is going, whatever rupees are going into
advertisements and talking points, etcetera, and the noise, it's creating good for the business, not
so good for the companies who are doing this.
Nihal Jham:
Understood. And just to follow-up on that would be that from our side, we have SleepX as a
brand, which is purely online, and we have limited SKUs Sleepwell which you have recently
got on Amazon and Flipkart. That is the way we are approaching this channel. That could be a
right understanding?
Rakesh Chahar:
That is correct. And also ensuring that there is some sanity in this wild thing, which is going on
now where the brand has an opportunity to grow where you still make some money out of it,
etcetera, and give your larger market of offline enough foundation and enough strong fleet to
stay strong.
Nihal Jham:
This is helpful. One last question would be that given the recent correction in raw material that
we've seen, how do we plan to use this benefit? Do we plan to reduce our prices? I know you've
highlighted about sport in sales and marketing, but would there be pricing action on our products
if raw material stays lower?
Rahul Gautam:
Sorry, I didn't hear that clearly, but you are talking about reduction of prices, are you?
Nihal Jham:
Yes. So given that we've seen a correction in the raw material prices, and I'm assuming that
sustained, would we reduce the prices of our products?
Rahul Gautam:
Generally, we don't do that. In fact, when the prices are to be increased, we also do not exactly
comments rates with the increase of raw material that has happened, because the market is being
structured in a way cannot take these wild fluctuations as the raw material people do. Therefore,
we have increased prudently, we generally do not reduce the prices. If an offering needs to be
tweaked up, we will do that. If some other thing, additional thing needs to be given with a
mattress, we will do that. But price reduction is not the order of the day.
Moderator:
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sohini Andani from SBI Mutual Funds. Please
go ahead.
Sohini Andani:
I just wanted a little more understanding on the increase in sales and marketing expenses that
we've seen both year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter. And also the fact that our mattresses sales
have actually declined during this period. So if you could just explain on what areas have we
spent this and the dichotomy a bit in terms of actual mattresses sales being lower. So it would
be good if you could explain this in some detail?
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Rahul Gautam:
Yes. All right. I think Tushaar will do that, which is, I think, primarily your question is increase
in the sales and marketing expense, while the number of mattresses have declined. So there's I
think both are following a different curve. Tushaar, can you just explain that?
Tushaar Gautam
The way that we are looking at that is from a baseline, let's say, of H1 last year or even quarter
2 last year, which were very-very unusual. There was, Q1 was virtually a dead quarter and a lot
of these, especially the marketing side of it and even some trade promotions and channels and
all of that was in there. Over a period of 12 months, it's certainly come back to what the
normalized level used to be two years or three years ago. That's on the sales side. So what is
really extra is marketing expense. And that's something that we are focusing on getting the brand
more visible, also investing in some of these newer channels where we are starting to expand
the Sleepwell brand like the e-comm side has come now. But there are a couple of other
developments like this that are ongoing of special channels, special businesses in which we
intend to expand the Sleepwell brand. So there are some marketing investments that are related
to that, which has gone up or which have been front loaded at the moment.
Moderator:
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Resham Jain from DSP Investment Managers.
Please go ahead.
Resham Jain:
So I have a few questions. So first one is on the, in the past, when we didn't had Starlite and
Feather Foam or rather the high-value products where the mix was higher, I think the larger
contribution is to come from the marriage-related buying patterns. Obviously, last two years,
those events got postponed and stuff like that. But what we are hearing now is that the upcoming
marriage season seems to be quite strong, and that is another way you used to market in the past.
So any comments around this specifically on the marriage-led demand of your products?
Rahul Gautam:
So I would say, yes, wedding time continues to be a strong time for us to market or to sell. And
this time, what are the dates, Rakesh, that the wedding, they have started yesterday or on to 4th,
right through up to 19th of December, I think, is it?
Rakesh Chahar:
13th of December.
Rahul Gautam:
So this is a strong season, and you can always fill the feel in the air that mattresses are being
sold more. But definitely, this is a strong time and we should have.
Rakesh Chahar:
I think it's a phenomenon more in North, which is related to marriage. It has a very little impact
on the other zones. But not for sure, I mean the impact is large.
Rahul Gautam:
Yes, because I think the other zones, they marry whenever they want. So for sure, the point that
you're making, Resham, is strong. This is a good time, and you would see good sales at this time.
Resham Jain:
Okay. This should improve the mix as right? The price points?
Rahul Gautam:
Yes.
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Sheela Foam Limited November 08, 2022
Resham Jain:
Sir, the second part is, I think on the digital spend because, as you mentioned, e-commerce is
where the competition is. And I could see that in terms of Google searches and also earlier,
whenever we use to type Sleepwell, the competing brand is to come at the top. I think that has
changed a little bit, but not fully. So how much spend has to happen on this site to be relevant?
Because with the aggression on the e-commerce side, the relevant spend also has to happen,
which is unlike a traditional company where the economics are quite different. Some of the
competing brands are, okay, not earning money. So how will you approach this whole
competition in this regard?
Rakesh Chahar:
So generally, I hope, I'll take that question. You're absolutely correct. And like you're saying,
you're starting to see some green shoots there, which is primarily on account of, I would say, 1.5
months of extra spend and extra work on the digital platform, not just Amazon, Flipkart, but on
Google, Google Search, Facebook, YouTube, all of that stuff. More and more as we move along,
we will focus primarily on television and digital. That's where the breakup of the brand spend
will be.
And a lot of the traditional spends are slowly ramping down. And those resources are getting
transitioned into digital. That's one side of the efficiency. On the other side, just to give you an
example, in September and October, we would have resourced the digital spend at least 7x to 8x
of what we normally do in a month. And I don't see that slowing down. So as we move along,
you will see more-and-more of that.
Resham Jain:
Can I ask one more? Just to understand on the e-commerce side, the SleepX and Sleepwell now
both will be present online. So from a differentiation standpoint and marketing, because
marketing there is a limited budget in terms of how you want to position your brand and spend.
So how will you now do because earlier you used to do more from SleepX perspective, but now
you have to do for Sleepwell as well. So how should one think about this?
Tushaar Gautam:
So I think, just think about it in a way that we started SleepX a couple of years ago when all of
these other brands who were coming in, looking at the model, looking at the conflict between
online and offline, we thought it's better to do it with a separate brand. Of course, it's grown. It's
competing with the other e-comm players, and it continues to compete.
The long-term play, the sustainable play is for Sleepwell to be present in that channel and take
a larger share of it, which we started about a couple of months ago, like Rakeshji said, good first
indication. It's a product and a model which we worked very hard to develop an omni-channel
experience where I can compete on an Amazon, Flipkart, website and compete with all of these
other new e-comm brands, but at the same time, a consumer can also access the same product,
the same offer at the same time at any of my retail outlets.
So from our perspective, we think the Sleepwell brand getting access to this new channel, which
is, let's say, about 6%, 7% of the overall market is the sustainable way to progress. And therefore,
the resource allocation of marketing will be more-and-more towards people.
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Rahul Gautam:
And if I'll just add to that, that number one, Sleepwell is the brand, is our flagship brand. That's
a sustainable one, and that's what we would be working on. This is a new territory, new unknown
territory and therefore, all the exploration, all the initial experience, etcetera, was done using
SleepX and not to sort of fool around with the Sleepwell brand. Now that we are learning the
trade, we are learning the processes, it would be more and modestly for sure.
Moderator:
[Operator Instructions]. The next question is from the line of Chetan Shah from Jeet Capital.
Please go ahead.
Chetan Shah:
Sorry, I'm just looking at your company for the first time. So my question may be a little novice.
Just wanted to understand our geographical growth opportunity. So I have kind of historical data,
but how do you see the things moving in the next two years to three years time horizon? How
do you see the opportunity size and scale? One is that question. And second is are we looking at
any complementary businesses apart from mattresses what we sell as of now, as an opportunity
to give a kind of a bit of product to the customer who walks into our store or buy our products?
Rahul Gautam:
I'm just repeating the first question, so that, again, we've understood it properly. You are saying
that how is the geographical growth going to be in the next two years to three years? And that
geography of India we are talking about. Is that correct?
Chetan Shah:
That's right, sir. One is India, and how do we see the global opportunity also. If you can share
some form of opportunity in that? Yes.
Rahul Gautam:
So our philosophy or our thinking on this is clear that when we look outside of India, we look at
an opportunity, which is on the operations side, manufacturing side, where all the experience of
sourcing of raw materials, formulating the products and manufacturing them on the best possible
equipment with the best possible technology, that is what we excel in, and that is what we will
look at outside. So whether the current ones also, which is Australia and Spain, we limit
ourselves to manufacturing the best possible foam and the best variety and giving it to the
customers.
When it comes to going beyond that, that is the consumer, the distribution and the consumer and
the customer, that is where we look at India, and that is how we are structured and integrated
here, because we understand the culture, we understand the ethos, we understand the consumer
outside, we don't do that, and therefore, we don't. So just to simply put it, consumer business,
India, just manufacturing of foam and excellence in foaming and foaming processes outside
India as well as outside India.
Coming back to the question of geographical growth. Undoubtedly, we are strong in the northern
part, the western part. We're getting stronger on the southern part. We may be a little weak on
the eastern part. But eastern markets are also relatively small compared to the other ones. It's
completely the way that the country is. If you look at it, it's an inverted triangle and then you
have the rivers flowing and that's where the people live, and that's how what we call as the
northern part of it.
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Sheela Foam Limited November 08, 2022
So though we are strong, but where we are strong, the opportunity is also larger and because the
opportunity comes from the unorganized part of it. The other places, we may not be that strong,
but we have the processes in place to get stronger to get to the position where the brand has
similar kind of dominance as we have in the northern and western part of it. And therefore, the
growth to me, my mind will come all over the country, different places for different reasons.
The second question that you had on the complementary business. We do things like pillows,
we do bed sheets, we do comforters, we do bet sets and anything which goes on top of the bed.
They are doing it, and this is going into the stores. And in times to come, we'll act as extra
attraction for the consumer when he or she comes into the store.
However, beyond that, the only other category, which is somewhat related, both in terms of
consumption of foam as well as in terms of the way that the markets are structured that you
generally have furniture and mattresses or bedroom beds and mattresses, and they are generally
kind of sold together. So it's very fragmented. It's very, the varieties and the SKUs and all that
are phenomenal. However, we have a play on this, and we have some programs. At this point,
I'll only say that we have some programs, I may not be in a position to discuss them any further.
Chetan Shah:
Yes. Just one a broad last question from my side. In terms of while answering one of my previous
question, you kind of alluded about technical capability and also manufacturing excellence.
Could you also give us some sense on, because historically, if you see a decade back also, people
were not very choosy or a selective about the form in which they sleep or they sit or they're using
their furniture.
But now that awareness has kind of improved. So how do you see this change of consumer
mindset, which has evolved can help you and you also want to take advantage of that with your
maybe R&D capability or technical capability and give a better product at a better price point.
Any thought on a broader sense will be very helpful. That's it from my side, sir, and I wish you
all the best.
Moderator:
The next question is from the line of Resha Mehta from Green Edge. Please go ahead.
Resha Mehta:
Again, fairly new to the company. So the first question, again, is on the e-commerce channel.
So if you could just comment on how big is this channel for mattresses in India, and also, what
would be our market share? And would Feather Foam and Starlite be also available on the e-
comm channel? So that's the first question.
Rakesh Chahar:
Tushaar, would you answer that? It is there, how big is the e-comm channel? What's our share
on it?
Tushaar Gautam:
The overall mattress market would be approximately INR 15,000 crores to INR 16,000 crores
for the consumer. E-comm this year projected is approximately anywhere between INR 1,000
crores to INR 1,200 crores. And we should finish the year at about 10% market share. On your
second question, Feather Foam, Starlite will not be available now.
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Sheela Foam Limited November 08, 2022
Resha Mehta:
So what will be, is the positioning of, or rather what is the difference in the positioning of Starlite
and Feather Foam brands? Because I believe both are sold through MBOs, are in the price range
of INR 5,000 to INR 20,000 if I'm not wrong?
Tushaar Gautam:
Starlite is lower. Starlite is a lower-end brand, and that's only anywhere from INR 4,000 to INR
8,000, INR 9,000. Feather Foam is the little more premium larger offering brand from INR 5,000
to INR 20,000, that's it or now a little higher as well.
Resha Mehta:
And out of the total mattresses in your revenue, how much would be coming from Starlite and
Feather foam?
Tushaar Gautam:
About 10%.
Resha Mehta:
And on the export front, if you could just give a general sense on that after China seeded this
place, which are the major countries that are exporting to US and EU. And would our exports
be branded or white labeled and just the margins and working capital here?
Rakesh Chahar:
Yes. So exports generally from the China Plus One piece, what's really happened in the export
of mattresses to the US is step 1. There were antidumping duties and resistance to buy from
China, primarily the Chinese mattress exporters shifted shop to Vietnam, Indonesia and places
like that, even some in Eastern Europe and things like that. Those have all got covered under the
antidumping regime of the US.
And therefore, India is still in a good position to export. That was primarily our play there. In
the interim, two things that are negative has happened. One was the escalation in transport costs.
So container freights from India, which were normally $3,000, $4,000 went up to $18,000,
$20,000 in the last 12, 18 months, and they've now come back to normal.
The other thing that happened was consumable demand in the US really dropping and a lot of
inventory stuck in the system and all of that. So all that's kind of one. That's why we are starting
to see good traction from customers for supply of white label mattresses into the US. That's
starting to happen for the last 45 days a year. The only other thing, sorry, did I answer all your
questions?
Resha Mehta:
Yes. So margins and working capital here. And also, what we sell is essentially white labeled
mattresses, right?
Rakesh Chahar:
That's correct.
Resha Mehta:
And the margins and working capital here and also, India is not seeing any antidumping duties?
Rakesh Chahar:
Well, not yet. Not yet. And let's hope not always. So that's why we kind of hedged that US
supply by also supplying product out of our Spanish entity with the assumption that a European
Union country coming under antidumping from the US will be a very-very tougher. Even if India
gets covered, we have the capability to service customers from space.
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Sheela Foam Limited November 08, 2022
Resha Mehta:
And working capital and margins here?
Rakesh Chahar:
So working capital, we are generally very conservative on, and payment terms are at best 20
days or so from dispatch at best.
Resha Mehta:
And lastly, on the rural distribution plan, if you can elaborate on this? And also, I think it was
mentioned that we may enter the furniture segment. So any progress there?
Rakesh Chahar:
So I'll park the furniture question maybe for three months down the line. Like Rahulji said, we're
not in a position to respond to that at the moment. On the rural side of things, Rahulji has already
commented on the capital expenditure in Jabalpur with this intent and the status of that. What
we are doing parallelly is to really do the product development, the distribution development,
the brand development in a small piloted territory, so that all of that is good to go by the time
the facility is up and running, which is probably anywhere from nine to 10 months away. That's
generally the outlook on that.
Resha Mehta:
Right. And if I can squeeze in one more. What would be our revenues from metros, Tier 1, Tier
2, Tier 3, rural currently, like, let's say, on an annualized FY '22 basis?
Rakesh Chahar:
So I'd say metro Tier 1 is about 70% and Tier 2, Tier 3 would be about 30%. The rural will be
virtually zero. I mean, so if I look at my retail outlets and their sales, that's what I'm telling you
right now, there would be consumer behavior of rural consumers coming to the closest big town
and buying some Sleepwell products from an existing retail outlet, that's standard consumer
behavior for all big purchases in rural, and that would be happening even now.
Moderator:
Thank you. [Operator Instructions]. Next question is from the line of Pankaj Tibrewal from
Kotak Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Sorry to interrupt Mr. Tibrewal, we cannot hear you, sir.
You are sounding very low, sir.
Pankaj Tibrewal:
Yes. So my first question is that though we have seen improvement in gross margins on a consol
basis, but that has not slowed down to the EBITDA and the PAT. And finally, what you
explained is the marketing overheads, which you have done. As you move into the second half,
maybe comfort you can give us on the margin expansion from an overall profitability and PAT
margins. That's one question.
The second is that the observation is that Spain has seen a very sharp gross margin expansion.
Any one-off there because in a rising in a bad environment where revenues have gone down, we
have seen a very sharp expansion on margins in Spain. And that has led to overall company
gross margin also kind of improving. And the last one is that cash flows have been weak in terms
of generation. Can you help us understand how do you intend to improve the cash flow as you
move into the second?
Rahul Gautam:
Thank you, Pankaj. Thanks a lot. Tushaar, will you take the first one on the H2, I mean, to give
some comfort without giving all the details.
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Tushaar Gautam:
I think on two fronts. One, I would just say the quarter two results that have been released right
Sheela Foam Limited November 08, 2022
now are also distorted from July, August, September perspective, September being extremely
good on the margin front. The average, of course, is what has been released. What that means is
that the September P&L or the margin issue of September is going to continue or we're seeing it
continue in October, November, coupled with better mix and higher sales on account of quarter
three season, marriage season, Sleepwell products selling more than -- or having more of a ratio
in overall sales, etcetera.
So just reiterating that point. So September was better than August. August was better than July
in terms of margins and we see that is continuing. And of course, the extra sales and the better
product mix for quarter three. So that should be maintainable and comfortable. What's the second
question?
Pankaj Tibrewal:
The second question was on Spain.
Tushaar Gautam:
Spain, Pankaj ji, I think something very strange is going on. Yes, the market is depressed, raw
material is short. But prices of raw materials are still a bit higher than India or significantly
higher. But because there is a shortage of raw materials, we are able to maintain our margins,
we're able to pick our customers, we're able to hold on to prices and maintain our margins in
Europe.
I'd say Europe is going through something which is very unusual, and we have stability probably
after this winter, that's what everyone in Europe is waiting to see how the winter progresses,
how is the European Union able to able to sustain itself with the energy issues and things like
that. However, I'd say for us, what we have said is, yes, there is a drop on existing customers
and existing markets.
But because we are only 1% of an overall extremely large market, there are still opportunities
for us to grow. We were constrained a little bit by availability of raw material, but those supply
chains we have changed over to Asia now. And now that we have enough raw material, we have
started to go out after growth. And I don't think there should be any limitations to growing that
business, irrespective of what's really happening in the overall market. That is on Spain. On the
cash front...
Rahul Gautam:
Cash flows, I think, primarily, Pankaj ji, it's because of lower sales and -- or Davinder, why don't
you answer that?
Davinder Ahuja:
Yes. So there is sales and there are certain expenses which have gone up this time which resulted
into lower cash from operations. Besides that, there are also working capital requirement in the
market, where we have extended certain credits, which is well tend to lower operating cash
flows.
Rahul Gautam:
So I think it's just lower sales and an extended credit, which is brought out. But the credit is
temporary and very secured.
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Sheela Foam Limited November 08, 2022
Pankaj Tibrewal:
And just last one, Spain has seen abnormal increase in gross margin from 22%, 23% to 31%. Do
you see the situation where in the second half, India does much better, recoup all our gross
margin losses, Australia continues to be steady, but Spain again sees a setback on gross margins
and then the overall control margins again. Is that a probability? Or you think Spain can sustain
the margins as the situation is today?
Rahul Gautam:
So I think the 20-odd percent that you were talking about, that was the unsteady point. I mean
that was the bottom point that was there, that is when the raw materials were violently fluctuating
around. But actually it's slowly kind of steadying down -- slowly kind of -- even if the Ukraine
war continues, that people are finding ways, whether it's getting the raw material from the Asian
region or importing elsewhere doesn't and manufactured out of here, etcetera.
So I think the 20-odd percent, 22% versus the low one it will go up. I think it should be steady
between 35 and 40. And as far as India is concerned, we are also experiencing the raw material
kind of reduction, which is there. So I see that the margins are going to be much higher than
where we are, in the coming times here.
Moderator:
The next question is from the line of Resham Jain from DSP Investment Managers.
Resham Jain:
Sir, just on the export side, as you mentioned, things are looking up now. So how much time do
you think it will take to ramp up the export facility, which we have set up? And what could be
the optimal throughput from this plant?
Rakesh Chahar:
The facility is up and running completely. Just to keep it when the export side was a bit slow,
just to keep it going we put some of our interim products through this. I mean it's ready to
respond to any demand that comes from the export side. So there are no issues on ramping up
the facility at all.
Resham Jain:
No, my question was to ramp up the whole facility to, let's say, 80% to 100%, how much time
will it take? Do you think it will take three months, six months, one year? And once it reaches
that level, how much throughput can come from this plant additionally?
Rakesh Chahar:
You're talking about the demand side then, right?
Resham Jain:
Yes. On the export because that plant is dedicated for exports. So I was just thinking from that
plant perspective because those kind of products can be manufactured only from that particular
plant?
Rakesh Chahar:
Approximately from the customer order side, approximately five to six months to ramp that up
to full capacity. And at that point in time, it should be doing close to five containers a day.
Resham Jain:
In terms of revenue sales, because containers doesn't -- we will not be able to understand what
will be the revenue potential?
Rakesh Chahar:
Roughly about between INR 1 crores to INR 1.5 crores a day.
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Sheela Foam Limited November 08, 2022
Moderator:
The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec.
Ritesh Shah:
Sir, just wanted your views on the distribution side. Most of the online-only players in the
marketplace, they are also now looking at omnichannel and looking to aggressively add stores.
I think based on the recent checks we did find out that we have been appointing new MBOs as
well and also basically putting some accountability in the system, I think we didn't have any
targets for EVOs and MBOs over the last two years to three years, probably it could then, go
back for COVID. So sir, I just wanted to have your sense on distribution. Also, if you could give
numbers on how many Shoppes, Galleries and World we have right now? Yes.
Rahul Gautam:
So Rakesh, would you take that question that the total number of Worlds, Galleries and Shoppes.
And the question is, that because of the COVID times, etcetera, there were no incentives for
those people. So are you thinking anything in that direction?
Rakesh Chahar:
Yes. So as far as the showroom format, which we call them World and Gallery, they are 1,500
plus. The Shoppes are about 2,200, and rest would be the exclusive dealers. And they also, the
network has been also growing, like just to give you a sense, since April, we have added about
100 showrooms in the first half.
As far as the sales targets are concerned, how we are approaching EBO is a little different. We
are focusing on improving the productivity inside the store, which is the conversion, the ASP
and the attach ratio. So we have a program which is wherein we have deputed people to help
retailers to get on to these metrics and start with the baseline and then start improving on the
conversion on the ASP. And because that's where we believe the sale is going to come from the
same store. So that's the EBO part of it. I hope I have answered your questions.
Ritesh Shah:
Yes. And on the MBO side, I think we were not very aggressive on adding MBOs, that is
something which has probably changed over the last six months. Also, I think on the incentives
on how we are actually incentivizing the guy to actually also put to Sleepwell into the shop to
make the sale happen actually?
Rakesh Chahar:
So we have started a new network. We are calling it a cushioning partner. And so we've started
this program in this year from end May between June, right? So we have created about 1,500
such people who have some products of Sleepwell and a complete range of Feather Foam. So
here, the belief is to instead of approaching thousands of MBOs to focus on this set of we have
the plan to go up to 2,000 dealers in this year and focus on them and push them towards its
usability.
So that's what our plan is with this network. And MBO, since we also deal in comfort foam and
Starlite, so that is the less for MBO where, I mean, there is a team which is working on that, both
on the comfort foam and Starlite MBO. But there also, we are growing not by the number but to
deal with maybe 1,000 MBOs and get better extraction out of them. Because our learning in past
has been that though we were able to appoint many MBOs because they all wanted some
connection with K12 and Sheela Foam, but the extraction was very poor. We were spending far
more energy and time in visiting those dealers and not getting enough business. So there's a
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change in that outlook that we've -- I mean we are approaching more for extraction now as the
MBO business is.
Sheela Foam Limited November 08, 2022
Ritesh Shah:
Sir, this is very useful. Just one follow-up. Sir, what is the end result that we are looking at? Do
we have any metric when we are looking at revenues for EBO or MBO?
Rakesh Chahar:
What we are looking is that we need to expand our EBO network. Currently, it stands at 5,000-
plus what I, this new network that we're developing another 2,000, 7,000. So we want to expand
it to about 10,000 in the next two years, which would be having a retail footprint of 20%-plus.
Moderator:
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this was the last question for today. I would now like to hand
the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Rahul Gautam:
Thank you. Thanks a lot, and thank you, everyone, for participating and actually making some
positive suggestions for us to take home. As usual, it was a great learning exercise for all of us.
I hope we've been able to answer your questions satisfactorily. And if you do have any further
questions or would like to know more about the company or it's working, please reach out to our
investment relationship managers at Valorem Advisors.
I want to conclude today with this note, that whatever recently reports that I have been reading
from all authorities, whether it's the World Bank or IMF or Morgan Stanley, etcetera, I think the
whole world believes that India is a country of the decade or is going to be the country of the
decade with at least a 6% to 7% growth. And soon, recently, of course, we have become the 5th
largest but soon, we would become the third largest, which is a good feeling to have and a good
hope to have. So thank you very much once again, especially that today was a holiday and that
all of you turned up and we could have this meaningful interactions.
With those words, I'd just say good night and sleep well.
Moderator:
Thank you. On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining
us, and you may now disconnect your lines.
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